[MD] Emptiness & Quantum Mechancics

[118]

Hi Marsha,

My take on the Buddhist side is that things do not exist, period.  Perhaps a
good analogy would be a wave on the ocean.  If one breaks it down, does it
really exist?  This speaks to your posts concerning patterns.  The notion is
that it is a composite of many tendencies.  And those tendencies are
composites in themselves.  Thus no inherent existence.  Is there then a
first cause tendency?  Can that be described as Quality?

Interesting posts below concerning betterness which I liked.  This would
imply direction in some way, the arrow of Quality.  To get away from the
relativism and subjective (if it is possible) for a second, can we ask about
that direction?  To start with, is that direction absolute?  Are we being
pushed in that direction or being pulled?  Is the path already formed, like
a canyon which a river travels down in pure Quality?  If so, what is the
metaphysical shape of that canyon?  I believe that is one metaphorical way
of describing this structure we are creating.  The boundaries so to speak.

Now, I'm sure that this is answered all the time in this forum, and that I
am but a neophyte.  And it is clear that the answer to such questions can
result in religious or scientific solutions which have meaning.  Those would
appear objective (in some way) to me.  Now if we return back to the
subjective and try to reify it with such a concept what are we left with?
 Betterness indeed, but what does that mean?  Maps within maps, quantum
enigmas, all tools towards providing meaning.  And what makes things
meaningful to the subjective?  Perhaps the shape of Quality could answer
that.

Cheers,
Mark

On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 11:02 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> From the Buddhist side, things exist interdependently.  For example, all
> things
> depend upon being designated or imputed by consciousness.  From a MoQ
> point-of-view, this is why I am so interested in the nature of patterns,
> all patterns.
> And I have determined that they are ever-changing, impermanent,
> interdependent.
>
> Isn't the reason we're in this forum is to discover the nature of reality?
>  What it is:
> Quality(unpatterned experience/patterned experience.)  What it is not: an
> independent existing self and independent existing objects.
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 9, 2010, at 1:08 AM, 118 wrote:
>
> > I guess it depends on how you define existence.  So, what kind of
> existence
> > is left, non-essence, acquired existence, extrinsic existence, relative
> > existence, codependent existence?  Maybe we are all enabling each other,
> > give me a cigarette this is too heavy.
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 9:36 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> To further expand:
> >>
> >> Emptiness is the concept that self and all phenomenon are empty of
> essence,
> >> inherent existence, independent existence, intrinsic existence and
> absolute
> >> existence.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Oct 8, 2010, at 2:13 PM, MarshaV wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> To expand:
> >>>
> >>> Emptiness is the concept that self and all phenomenon are empty of
> >> essence, inherent existence, and independent existence.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Oct 8, 2010, at 1:47 PM, MarshaV wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Emptiness is concept that self and all phenomenon are empty of
> inherent
> >> existence.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Oct 8, 2010, at 1:25 PM, Andre Broersen wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> John to Marsha:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Meditate.  But don't meditate upon nothingness, or you will obtain
> >>>>> nothingness.  Meditate upon truth and you will know truth.  It's
> really
> >> very
> >>>>> simple.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Andre:
> >>>>> John, I'll be honest and say that I have not followed the entire
> thread
> >> but this caught my attention.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Prey tell, what is your understanding of 'nothingness' (in Buddhism)
> >> and what is 'truth'(in radical empiricism)?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think you need to be clear on these two concepts before you burden
> >> Marsha with meditating on them.
> >>>>> Trying to follow Marsha's frame of mind it sounds like an eternal
> >> condemnation into reified and at the
> >>>>> same time relativized sq....she'll go nuts!!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Tell me John, is this your true hidden agenda in all this?...get rid
> of
> >> the bitch!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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