[MD] Emptiness & Quantum Mechancics

[MarshaV]

On Oct 11, 2010, at 11:38 AM, 118 wrote:

> Hi Marsha,
> 
> Two questions:
> 
> If rational objective knowledge is created by the brain, is it possible for
> it to be free of subjectivity?
> 
> Isn't thought part of the unpatterned experience in that it merges to
> communicate pattern?


Marsha:
I have no answer for your questions.   

For me, unpatterned experience means awareness without sensation, 
and without knowledge, division and definition.  








> 
> Thanks for your help,
> 
> Mark
> 
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 11:52 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Oct 10, 2010, at 6:47 PM, Mary wrote:
>> 
>>>> On Oct 9, 2010, at 9:26 PM, 118 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Marsha,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I hate to step into this again, but...
>>>>> 
>>>>> I see a lot of twisting of words that contain no real meaning.  A
>>>> pattern
>>>>> forms repeating motifs, what does an unpattern do?  Is it like white
>>>> noise?
>>>>> Are you talking about chaos theory (which can be patterned).  Or are
>>>> you
>>>>> talking about being spaced out on the way to work.  If you have time,
>>>> give
>>>>> me an example of an unpattern.
>>> 
>> 
>>> Mary:
>>> It's not possible to give an example of an unpattern.  That's kind of the
>>> point.  You see, SOM is all about patterns.
>> 
>> Hi Mary,
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> I think within the MoQ, the fourth level, the Intellectual Level, is
>> comprised of
>> intellectual static patterns of value. The way that these patterns function
>> is
>> as reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis and
>> manipulation.
>> Reification decontextualizes.  Intellectual patterns process from a
>> subject/object
>> conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of
>> independence as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.”  The fourth level is
>> a
>> formalized subject/object level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for
>> rational, objective knowledge, which is free from the taint of any
>> subjectivity.
>> 
>> 
>>> Mary:
>>> Explaining patterns, examining patterns, comparing and contrasting
>> patterns.
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> Explaining, examining and contrasting patterns that have been reified as
>> objects
>> of analysis.
>> 
>> 
>>> Mary:
>>> By definition, SOM can't address an 'unpattern'.
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> Right, not without reifying the unpatterned experience into an object of
>> analysis.
>> 
>> 
>>> Mary:
>>> The reason we have so much trouble communicating the essence of
>>> 'unpatterns' to SOMists is precisely because they cannot be
>>> addressed in the realm of patterns.
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> Patterns of value do not have the exact, boundaries of definition and
>> independence required to be examined and manipulated as objects
>> of analysis.  To include all of a patterns interconnected processes would
>> be beyond the methods acceptable to science/ logic which wants to isolate
>> for verification purposes.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> Mary:
>>> The first cut at Dynamic Quality is experience.  In the instant we've
>>> 'experienced', it becomes one of 2 things in the second cut - a subject
>>> or an object.  That's unfortunate, because once we've sliced things up
>>> as subjects and objects, we can no longer talk about Quality, or Values,
>>> or Morals.  We're hard-wired that way.  Not our fault, just our
>> disability.
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> Not sure that I am comfortable with describing experience as the first cut.
>> Maybe an Experience (Quality) is the cutting (process/verb), and
>> reification
>> follows.  If not hard-wired, then an insidious habit of thought.
>> 
>> imho.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
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___