[MD] Step One

[John Carl]

Hello Dan.

Well.  (deep breath)  Here goes.

> Explaining yourself poorly, is not "Quality in thought and expression"
> dan.
> > Are you admitting to some clowning of your own?
>
> Dan:
> Well, you are not getting what I am saying so I am being polite by
> pointing the fault at myself.
>
>
Yes!  Exactly!  That's what clowning is, dan.  And it actually can be very
helpful, at times.  The zen lunatics of Japan were famous for it, but that's
another story for another time.


>
> Dan:
> I don't know what you mean here. What story? Your life story? Your
> problems and tribulations? Like I said, everyone has problems. I have
> mine too. But I don't think it is all that wise to trot them out in
> front of everyone.
>


"airing one's dirty laundry", so to speak.  All the rage on reality tv, and
such, I hear.  I understand completely.  There has to be a point.  There has
to be some sort of meaning in it all, or it's just babble on the wind.  I
get that.

Let me just say, that there seems to be to me.  The fact that I haven't been
able to fully communicate it to you, is probably my fault (see above remark
on "clowning") but I promise I will try harder.

I think part of the problem is my idealistic reality conflicts with other's
empirical facts.  I should be more sensitive, I suppose, but part of my
solution to this conundrum, is simply positing the most basic and humble of
lives, mine for instance, threadbare, skinning along on the very knife edge
of existence, and yet happy, contented and continuing onward.  Getting
somewhere, because of the MoQ.  Because of a basic attitude about Quality.

Quality is something more than mere surface appearance.

Now, you can certainly take issue with my stance, my presentation, my
communication, my participation, my elucidation or my pronounciation... all
are offered up for critique and analysis.  such are the rules of this game.


But the issue of "reverence", bugs me for some reason.  It just doesn't make
sense to me at all, dan.  And it sorta makes me worry about you, a bit.


> Dan:
> How about an intelligent conversation?
>
>
well... you either judge me incapable of that, and walk away, or you go
ahead and engage me in one.  Intelligent conversation takes two people, you
know.  Two people - each listening to the other and responding to the points
that are made.

I mean, it's seems basically to me that's what we are doing, here, now.  But
mebbe you got higher standards for "intelligent".  You want I should look up
some big words for us to ponder?



> Dan:
> Years ago there was a fellow here who went by the name of Roger
> Parker... a wonderful guy. We shared many discussions here and on Doug
> Renselle's Quantonics site. Anyway, he likened our choice set in life
> to a chess game. I stated that in my experience, there are many
> opening moves in chess that can be made, but only a select few that
> will allow a player a chance at winning... only  the best moves. Life
> is like that too. Sure, there are a vast number of thoughts involved
> in every decision, but there are only a select few that are good
> thoughts.
>
> If we are irrational beings, we won't survive long. How could we?
>
>
I like chess.  I get to play with my father-in-law, once a week, and he
loves to play as much as me, and we're evenly matched, so that's fun.  But
I'm not real good at thinking ahead in chess.  I get lost quick, in all the
potential moves and countermoves.  So instead of trying to think way ahead
of all the possible moves, I usually just focus on the move right in front
of me.  Where's the best place to go now.  What's the immediate situation
look like.

There are only a select, few, that are good moves.


> > I may clown around as my style, dan, but I can be quite serious about
> some
> > things.  Loyalty is one of those things.  I respect yours.
>
> Dan:
> Then perhaps you understand when you insult people like Robert Pirsig
> that I am going to kick up a fuss about it.



Now yer gonna have to back that one up, big boy.  Insult?  Where did I ever
insult Robert Pirsig?   Unless you mean insult in some weird "didn't kiss
the carpet enough for my satisfaction" sorta way, then I have NO idea what
you're talking about with your "insult".

Something in your head, not mind.



> > Well I'll grant you are more knowing than I on the subject, having spent
> > those years and all.  But in my opinion, all caring is the same and life
> > depends on each and every part of that caring, each and every moment of
> > every day.
>
> Dan:
> But it's not! Any yahoo can claim that they care and they are probably
> right. But there are deeper ways of caring... ways that can't be
> explained or written about. You have to feel it deep down. No one can
> tell you what to feel. No one can say the feeling is right or wrong.
> You just know!
>
>
That's true.  I do know.  No one can say I have insulted Robert Pirsig in my
heart, because only I know my heart and I know it is not there.

And any yahoo can claim that "i care more than you" and it seems like that
because they make such a big noisy fuss.  but one has to ask, is their big
noisy fuss along the lines of the fuss the catholics made in the
reformation.  Nobody makes a fuss that the sun is going to rise tomorrow.
 People make a fuss over things that are in doubt.   Who's actually being
insulting then?


> Dan:
> No I don't like the way you've been doing it. You care intellectually,
> I am sure of that. But John, there are other methods of climbing that
> do not involve intellect and reason. And that doesn't mean being
> unreasonable either.
>
>
 I don't think it's possible to "care intellectually", dan.  We care, then
intellectualize.  So I can't see how you can be so sure of anything in me,
that i don't even think is possible.

And you may be right, about the other ways of climbing.  I was raised in a
belief system that said reason was what leads us astray.  They promoted the
idea of faith, but I think I'd rather go with reason.  For if faith is faith
in anything real, it should first be certainly reasonable, don't you think?


 The sun rises every day.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > It rises in the Eastern way.  It sets in the west.
>
> Dan:
> Exactly. And we in the West expect that. Our whole lives revolve
> around expectations. We rarely experience a moment of true and utter
> awe at the mystery that is life. That is what was missing when
> Phaedrus failed to complete the pilgrimage. He expected to climb a
> mountain. But that wasn't what it was all about.
>
>
Well I hate to be so disagreeable, but I guess I gotta.    I don't see how
anybody who is a parent can help but be struck constantly with awe at the
mystery of life.  Happens to me about three times a week, actually.

Phaedrus succeeded in the true pilgrimage, which isn't about finding the top
of a mountain, it's about finding yourself.

That's what its all about.

Hokey pokey John