[MD] Step One

[MarshaV]

On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote:

> Hello everyone
> 
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:30 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>> 
>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 12:48 PM, 118 wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Dan Glover wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello everyone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:26 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:39 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dan:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The intellectual level is just thinking, plain and simple. You know
>>>> that, John.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha:
>>>>>> Aren't all patterns conceptually constructed?  Wouldn't that make all
>>>> levels "just thinking?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Marsha
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would say that within the framework of the MOQ, inorganic and
>>>>> biological patterns are physical. We can touch them, examine them.
>>>>> Social and intellectual patterns are mental... like the President of
>>>>> the United States. There is no way to physically tell the President
>>>>> apart from any other human being by examination. So to answer your
>>>>> question, no, not all levels are "just thinking." In addition, there
>>>>> seem to social patterns of value that are not intellectual, like
>>>>> saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Those types of patterns are
>>>>> ingrained in us to the extent that we really don't think about it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dan
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Dan,
>>>> 
>>>> If I think "Should I say "Bless you." to this guy." does that make it an
>>>> intellectual static pattern of value or a social static pattern of value?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mark:
>>> Yes.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> And the notion that the Intellectual Level represent theology, science, philosophy
>> and mathematics has collapsed into thinking about whether to say "Bless you.",
>> or not?   No, I don't buy that.
> 
> Hi Marsha
> 
> Sometimes in order to make the complicated a bit simpler, we start
> small. I mean, there are only four levels and they contain everything
> (except Dynamic Quality), so obviously we are using analogy here to
> order our understanding of reality. Theology, science, philosophy and
> mathematics are made up of both social and intellectual pattens. They
> are often cultural-specific, as Robert Pirsig points out.
> 
> I hope that helps.
> 
> Dan



Hi Dan, 

Marsha:
In Anthony's PhD it states that science theology, mathematics and philosophy are
intellectual quality patterns. So here's my understanding of the Intellectual Level:

The Intellectual Level, the fourth level, is comprised of static patterns of value such 
as science theology, mathematics and philosophy. The way that these patterns 
function is as reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis and manipulation. 
Reification decontextualizes.  Intellectual patterns process from a subject/object 
conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of independence 
as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.”  The fourth level is a formalized subject/object 
level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational, objective knowledge, which 
is free from the taint of any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations, fears and compulsions 
in order to pursue study and research in an unbiased and rational manner.

All patterns are interdependent so naturally there would be a relationship with social 
level patterns. 


Marsha 

 
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