[MD] Step One

[ADRIE KINTZIGER]

If you insist on the phrase, "formalised subject/object" conceptual
framework, Marsha, then the model you
propose, is called science, and it is a sol-ution , not even a
somreasoning.Not that i disagree on developing the framework.

One of the problems this model contains, is in fact that the framework is
already there,it is impossible to re-invent it every day.
But i think you are digging for fine-tuning,nothing wrong with that.

2010/10/20 MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>

>
> On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
>
> > Hello everyone
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:30 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Oct 19, 2010, at 12:48 PM, 118 wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Dan Glover wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hello everyone
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:26 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:39 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dan:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The intellectual level is just thinking, plain and simple. You know
> >>>> that, John.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Marsha:
> >>>>>> Aren't all patterns conceptually constructed?  Wouldn't that make
> all
> >>>> levels "just thinking?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Marsha
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I would say that within the framework of the MOQ, inorganic and
> >>>>> biological patterns are physical. We can touch them, examine them.
> >>>>> Social and intellectual patterns are mental... like the President of
> >>>>> the United States. There is no way to physically tell the President
> >>>>> apart from any other human being by examination. So to answer your
> >>>>> question, no, not all levels are "just thinking." In addition, there
> >>>>> seem to social patterns of value that are not intellectual, like
> >>>>> saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Those types of patterns are
> >>>>> ingrained in us to the extent that we really don't think about it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dan
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dan,
> >>>>
> >>>> If I think "Should I say "Bless you." to this guy." does that make it
> an
> >>>> intellectual static pattern of value or a social static pattern of
> value?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Marsha
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Mark:
> >>> Yes.
> >>
> >>
> >> Marsha:
> >> And the notion that the Intellectual Level represent theology, science,
> philosophy
> >> and mathematics has collapsed into thinking about whether to say "Bless
> you.",
> >> or not?   No, I don't buy that.
> >
> > Hi Marsha
> >
> > Sometimes in order to make the complicated a bit simpler, we start
> > small. I mean, there are only four levels and they contain everything
> > (except Dynamic Quality), so obviously we are using analogy here to
> > order our understanding of reality. Theology, science, philosophy and
> > mathematics are made up of both social and intellectual pattens. They
> > are often cultural-specific, as Robert Pirsig points out.
> >
> > I hope that helps.
> >
> > Dan
>
>
>
> Hi Dan,
>
> Marsha:
> In Anthony's PhD it states that science theology, mathematics and
> philosophy are
> intellectual quality patterns. So here's my understanding of the
> Intellectual Level:
>
> The Intellectual Level, the fourth level, is comprised of static patterns
> of value such
> as science theology, mathematics and philosophy. The way that these
> patterns
> function is as reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis
> and manipulation.
> Reification decontextualizes.  Intellectual patterns process from a
> subject/object
> conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of
> independence
> as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.”  The fourth level is a formalized
> subject/object
> level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational, objective
> knowledge, which
> is free from the taint of any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations,
> fears and compulsions
> in order to pursue study and research in an unbiased and rational manner.
>
> All patterns are interdependent so naturally there would be a relationship
> with social
> level patterns.
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
> ___
>
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