[MD] Step One

[MarshaV]

Adrie,

Try to keep it sticking together, with you?


Marsha




On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:24 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER wrote:

> If you insist on the phrase, "formalised subject/object" conceptual
> framework, Marsha, then the model you
> propose, is called science, and it is a sol-ution , not even a
> somreasoning.Not that i disagree on developing the framework.
> 
> One of the problems this model contains, is in fact that the framework is
> already there,it is impossible to re-invent it every day.
> But i think you are digging for fine-tuning,nothing wrong with that.
> 
> 2010/10/20 MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> 
>> 
>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everyone
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:30 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 12:48 PM, 118 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Dan Glover wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hello everyone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:26 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:39 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dan:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The intellectual level is just thinking, plain and simple. You know
>>>>>> that, John.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Marsha:
>>>>>>>> Aren't all patterns conceptually constructed?  Wouldn't that make
>> all
>>>>>> levels "just thinking?"
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Marsha
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I would say that within the framework of the MOQ, inorganic and
>>>>>>> biological patterns are physical. We can touch them, examine them.
>>>>>>> Social and intellectual patterns are mental... like the President of
>>>>>>> the United States. There is no way to physically tell the President
>>>>>>> apart from any other human being by examination. So to answer your
>>>>>>> question, no, not all levels are "just thinking." In addition, there
>>>>>>> seem to social patterns of value that are not intellectual, like
>>>>>>> saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Those types of patterns are
>>>>>>> ingrained in us to the extent that we really don't think about it.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dan,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If I think "Should I say "Bless you." to this guy." does that make it
>> an
>>>>>> intellectual static pattern of value or a social static pattern of
>> value?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mark:
>>>>> Yes.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha:
>>>> And the notion that the Intellectual Level represent theology, science,
>> philosophy
>>>> and mathematics has collapsed into thinking about whether to say "Bless
>> you.",
>>>> or not?   No, I don't buy that.
>>> 
>>> Hi Marsha
>>> 
>>> Sometimes in order to make the complicated a bit simpler, we start
>>> small. I mean, there are only four levels and they contain everything
>>> (except Dynamic Quality), so obviously we are using analogy here to
>>> order our understanding of reality. Theology, science, philosophy and
>>> mathematics are made up of both social and intellectual pattens. They
>>> are often cultural-specific, as Robert Pirsig points out.
>>> 
>>> I hope that helps.
>>> 
>>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Dan,
>> 
>> Marsha:
>> In Anthony's PhD it states that science theology, mathematics and
>> philosophy are
>> intellectual quality patterns. So here's my understanding of the
>> Intellectual Level:
>> 
>> The Intellectual Level, the fourth level, is comprised of static patterns
>> of value such
>> as science theology, mathematics and philosophy. The way that these
>> patterns
>> function is as reified concepts and the rules for their rational analysis
>> and manipulation.
>> Reification decontextualizes.  Intellectual patterns process from a
>> subject/object
>> conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of
>> independence
>> as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.”  The fourth level is a formalized
>> subject/object
>> level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational, objective
>> knowledge, which
>> is free from the taint of any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations,
>> fears and compulsions
>> in order to pursue study and research in an unbiased and rational manner.
>> 
>> All patterns are interdependent so naturally there would be a relationship
>> with social
>> level patterns.
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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