[MD] Step One

Wed Oct 20 02:39:36 PDT 2010

MarshaV aan moq_discuss
details weergeven 11:29 (7 minuten geleden)

Adrie,

Try to keep it sticking together, with you?

Marsha
- Tekst uit oorspronkelijke bericht weergeven -

Not sure if this question is to be meant sarcastic?, or an open end
question,..if you like to clarify?
Have to do some work now, so gone with the wind,....back in the evening

2010/10/20 MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>

>
> Adrie,
>
> Try to keep it sticking together, with you?
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2010, at 5:24 AM, ADRIE KINTZIGER wrote:
>
> > If you insist on the phrase, "formalised subject/object" conceptual
> > framework, Marsha, then the model you
> > propose, is called science, and it is a sol-ution , not even a
> > somreasoning.Not that i disagree on developing the framework.
> >
> > One of the problems this model contains, is in fact that the framework is
> > already there,it is impossible to re-invent it every day.
> > But i think you are digging for fine-tuning,nothing wrong with that.
> >
> > 2010/10/20 MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> >
> >>
> >> On Oct 19, 2010, at 4:55 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello everyone
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:30 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 12:48 PM, 118 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 7:29 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 19, 2010, at 10:23 AM, Dan Glover wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello everyone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 4:26 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2010, at 11:39 PM, Dan Glover wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Dan:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The intellectual level is just thinking, plain and simple. You
> know
> >>>>>> that, John.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Marsha:
> >>>>>>>> Aren't all patterns conceptually constructed?  Wouldn't that make
> >> all
> >>>>>> levels "just thinking?"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Marsha
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would say that within the framework of the MOQ, inorganic and
> >>>>>>> biological patterns are physical. We can touch them, examine them.
> >>>>>>> Social and intellectual patterns are mental... like the President
> of
> >>>>>>> the United States. There is no way to physically tell the President
> >>>>>>> apart from any other human being by examination. So to answer your
> >>>>>>> question, no, not all levels are "just thinking." In addition,
> there
> >>>>>>> seem to social patterns of value that are not intellectual, like
> >>>>>>> saying "Bless you" when someone sneezes. Those types of patterns
> are
> >>>>>>> ingrained in us to the extent that we really don't think about it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dan,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If I think "Should I say "Bless you." to this guy." does that make
> it
> >> an
> >>>>>> intellectual static pattern of value or a social static pattern of
> >> value?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Marsha
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mark:
> >>>>> Yes.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Marsha:
> >>>> And the notion that the Intellectual Level represent theology,
> science,
> >> philosophy
> >>>> and mathematics has collapsed into thinking about whether to say
> "Bless
> >> you.",
> >>>> or not?   No, I don't buy that.
> >>>
> >>> Hi Marsha
> >>>
> >>> Sometimes in order to make the complicated a bit simpler, we start
> >>> small. I mean, there are only four levels and they contain everything
> >>> (except Dynamic Quality), so obviously we are using analogy here to
> >>> order our understanding of reality. Theology, science, philosophy and
> >>> mathematics are made up of both social and intellectual pattens. They
> >>> are often cultural-specific, as Robert Pirsig points out.
> >>>
> >>> I hope that helps.
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Dan,
> >>
> >> Marsha:
> >> In Anthony's PhD it states that science theology, mathematics and
> >> philosophy are
> >> intellectual quality patterns. So here's my understanding of the
> >> Intellectual Level:
> >>
> >> The Intellectual Level, the fourth level, is comprised of static
> patterns
> >> of value such
> >> as science theology, mathematics and philosophy. The way that these
> >> patterns
> >> function is as reified concepts and the rules for their rational
> analysis
> >> and manipulation.
> >> Reification decontextualizes.  Intellectual patterns process from a
> >> subject/object
> >> conceptual framework creating false boundaries that give the illusion of
> >> independence
> >> as a “thing” or an “object of analysis.”  The fourth level is a
> formalized
> >> subject/object
> >> level (SOM), where the paramount demand is for rational, objective
> >> knowledge, which
> >> is free from the taint of any subjectivity like emotions, inclinations,
> >> fears and compulsions
> >> in order to pursue study and research in an unbiased and rational
> manner.
> >>
> >> All patterns are interdependent so naturally there would be a
> relationship
> >> with social
> >> level patterns.
> >>
> >>
> >> Marsha
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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>
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>
>
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