[MD] self: agent of action & thinker of thoughts

[MarshaV]

On Aug 17, 2011, at 5:10 PM, MarshaV wrote:

> 
> On Aug 17, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Arlo Bensinger wrote:
> 
>> [Marsha]
>> RMP does, in fact, state that it is an illusion.
>> 
>> [Arlo]
>> Right, Marsha, he states the "autonomous self" is an illusion, because the "autonomous self" is a product of S/O thinking.
>> 
>> But if you move up to a MOQ perspective, there are NO illusions OR existants, there are patterns of value. The pattern "self" is no more an illusion (or an existential existant) than a car, or a bird, or a song, or a system of map coordinates.
>> 
>> Do you not see that it makes zero sense to say, within a MOQ, that some patterns of value  are "illusions" and some patterns of value are "real"? That's simply importing S/O thinking into the fabric of the MOQ.
>> 
>> The "self", within a MOQ, is neither an illusion or an existential existant. It is a pattern of value, one whose value (persistence/stability) is marked by how well it works in describing experience, in other words its experiential value.
> 
> Marsha:
> Yes, the "autonomous self" is an illusion.  I have for a very long time stated that I see the self within the MoQ as a flow of ever-changing, conditionally co-dependent and impermanent, static patterns of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual value in a field of Dynamic Quality.
> 
 

Arlo,  

Do you understand that maya?
 
"In addition to the Dynamic Quality viewpoint of the MoQ corresponding 
to what Nagarjuna terms sunyatta(ie; the indeterminate or the world 
of the Buddhas), the static quality viewpoint of the moq also corresponds 
to _sunyavada_ (ie,the conditioned component or world of _maya_)
of Nagarjuna.  _Sunyavada_ includes all conceptions of reality including
metaphysikal views, ideals, religious beliefs, hopes and ambitions; in other
words,using moq terminology, static quality patterns

      (McWatt, Anthony, 'AN INTRODUCTION TO ROBERT PIRSIG’S METAPHYSICS OF QUALITY')  





 

 
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