[MD] aggregates of grasping

[MarshaV]

Bugger off!!!



On Mar 7, 2012, at 12:52 PM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:

> Marsha,
> You mistake my intentions.  You need to figure it out for yourself, there is nothing I can tell you.
> 
> Sent laboriously from an iPhone,
> Mark
> 
> On Mar 7, 2012, at 8:59 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mark,
>> 
>> Right,,, because it was a red-herring, asshole statement meant to get me to chase my tail.  No dice, Baby, start explaining!!!  
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mar 7, 2012, at 11:45 AM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Marsha,
>>> I see no reason to do this, figure it out on your own.
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> On 3/7/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Mark,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Explain how you think I am using relationships in an objective fashion?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mar 7, 2012, at 11:33 AM, 118 wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Marsha,
>>>>> No this is incorrect, you are using relationships in an objective fashion.
>>>>> Mark
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/7/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mark,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Static patterns of value can be understood as recurrent patterns of
>>>>>> interactions that arise simultaneously.  Such patterns are not objects in
>>>>>> any sense, but specific, recurring relationships.  This notion aligns
>>>>>> well
>>>>>> with the Buddha's The Principle of  Conditionality: If this is, that
>>>>>> comes
>>>>>> to be; from the arising of this, that arises; if this is not, that does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> come to be; from the stopping of this, that is stopped.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 7, 2012, at 6:52 AM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Further, Mark, it seems you cannot understand the difference between
>>>>>>> object and process?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:36 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> It seems you cannot understand the difference between an objective,
>>>>>>>> independent existence and a relative, interdependent existence?  Well,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> shall not be rushed into presenting a Tractatus, but at the very least
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> relative, interdependent existence will not require a primary source or
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> soul.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 11:55 AM, 118 <ununoctiums at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Marsha,
>>>>>>>>> You seem to be using your patterns as objects.  Am I wrong here?  I do
>>>>>>>>> not see how you are making the patterns something different.  Even
>>>>>>>>> objects can change, so that does not mean anything different.  It
>>>>>>>>> would seem that your are simply performing a word change from
>>>>>>>>> "objects" to "patterns".  How are they different?  We see a pattern on
>>>>>>>>> a rug, because it repeats itself.  That is what a pattern is.  What is
>>>>>>>>> it about your patterns that provides such repetition.  How is it that
>>>>>>>>> you undergo pattern recognition?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Just seeking clarification for my own understanding.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 3/6/12, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 3:35 AM, "Ham Priday" <hampday1 at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I find it interesting that our beloved Marsha, who has consistently
>>>>>>>>>>> denied
>>>>>>>>>>> her selfness, now denies her ability to form opinions, as well.
>>>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>>>> reviewing Mark's analysis of her March 4 dissertation on feelings
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> their ownership, Marsha responded:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know enough to form an opinion.  It is extremely
>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting,
>>>>>>>>>>>> though,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and I hope to learn more.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> One can only wonder what all those quotes posted from the Vedanta
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Buddhist scholars are intended to express if not her opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> certainly formulated her own opinion of what a SOM pattern is, since
>>>>>>>>>>> "ever-changing, conditionally co-dependent and impermanent, static
>>>>>>>>>>> patterns of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual value"
>>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>>> become the mantra that identifies her.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Ham,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> You must have been reading my thoughts, for I have surely been
>>>>>>>>>> thinking
>>>>>>>>>> about you, and hoping you would find a way to do what you do so well.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I would like to comment on the term "SOM pattern".  For the
>>>>>>>>>> expression
>>>>>>>>>> seems
>>>>>>>>>> both true and false.  The mind does seem to have evolved to reify ALL
>>>>>>>>>> useful
>>>>>>>>>> experience into objects of conception & perception; it is a very
>>>>>>>>>> insidious
>>>>>>>>>> tendency.  I do believe my definition of static patterns helps to
>>>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>>>> one's
>>>>>>>>>> ideas about "objects" from discrete, bounded, objective entities to
>>>>>>>>>> ones of
>>>>>>>>>> pragmatically formed, recursive, interdependent "patterns of value
>>>>>>>>>> (processes)".
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> And, yes, I have found much useful detail presented by Vedanta and
>>>>>>>>>> Buddhist
>>>>>>>>>> scholars.  It often surprises me how clearly they present very
>>>>>>>>>> difficult and
>>>>>>>>>> strange (to the Western way of thinking) ideas. But always I believe
>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> should continually check and verify.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>> Archives:
>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ___
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>> Archives:
>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>> 
>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>> Archives:
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html