[MD] relatively static

MarshaV valkyr at att.net
Tue May 14 02:10:59 PDT 2013 

J-A,

You would like to restrict me to the the either/or, yes/no dichotomy of the Flatlander's language?   No thanks.  Closed-ended questions make me sneeze.  In Flatland the tendency is to label a pattern, then give that label a definition, then take the pattern to actually be the labeled definition.  That's reification and a very superficial understanding.  
 

Marsha
 
p.s.  Get someone else to play the role of Alcibiades.  
 
 

On May 13, 2013, at 6:37 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:

> BC458527EA at telia.com> <34ACAA2F-F372-4C02-906C-E083FABC5BCE at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085)
> 
> Dear Marsha
> 
> Of course there is a point. Are you able to agree in any point? Y/N
> 
> J A
> 
> 
> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 12.25 skrev MarshaV:
> 
>> 
>> J-A,
>> 
>> There never was a point, was there?  And now another pointless question?  
>> 
>> Mu!  
>> 
>> 
>> Marsha
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:10 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Marsha
>>> 
>>> What do you like the writings of Robert M Pirsig?
>>> 
>>> J A
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 11.05 skrev MarshaV:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> J-A,
>>>> 
>>>> What she?   
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Marsha 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 4:50 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> So did you like the pattern she created?
>>>>> 
>>>>> J A
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 10.28 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> J-A,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Would you now like to lecture me on how you have achieved a similar performance of beauty, harmony, balance, and how I could too if only I listen to your wise words?    
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 3:43 AM, Jan Anders Andersson wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How about this
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.flixxy.com/the-incredible-power-of-concentration-miyoko-shida.htm#.UZCXf3DEjcU
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> J A
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Greetings J-A,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 1:56 AM, Jan Anders Andersson wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Dear Marsha 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think you are interested to know its point.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Is it your habit (pattern) to think you KNOW other people's interests?  That's a rather grandiose claim.  -  Make your point!   
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Here's my mundane point:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --- Static patterns of value are repetitive processes (multiple events), 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>       conditionally co-dependent, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>                    impermanent, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>                                 and ever-changing, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> that pragmatically tend to persist and change within a stable, predictable pattern.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Within the MoQ, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   these patterns are morally categorized into a four-level, evolutionary, 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>    hierarchical  
>>>>>>                       structure:  
>>>>>>                                       intellectual, 
>>>>>>                                                          social, 
>>>>>>                                                                     biological, 
>>>>>>                                                                                      and inorganic. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Static quality exists in stable patterns relative to other patterns.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>                                    Patterns have no independent, inherent existence. ---
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Marsha 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> p.s.  Consider this explanation in the same category as "pure experience" where 'pure' doesn't mean 'pure' but merely 'relatively pure' and there are no accusations of some horrendous, unspeakable, anti-intellectual crime against definition. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 12 maj 2013 x kl. 23.46 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> J-A,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Answer the Y/N questions yourself; I am not interested in doing so.  It's your thought experiment, so explain its point.   What are you thinking?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Dear Marsha
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It shouldn't hurt or be dangerous in any way to just answer my questions with YES or NO.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Is the clay burned to make it firm?  Y/N
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Does that make it better and more useful?  Y/N
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> J-A
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan-Anders,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The original topic has not been replaced; it was change, not clay or teapots or 'saving time'.   Before (when soft and malleable) and after a firing (when firm and stable), the clay is still in a constant state of changing.  In other words, both before and after the firing, the clay or teapot  is ever-changing.  So once again I suggest that you might take a few minutes everyday to take an introspective look:  
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Marsha:
>>>>>>>>>> I have pointed out many times, it is not anti-intellectual or a contradiction to understand that patterns may maintain a static, stable identity at the same time as they and their context are undergoing constant change. Think of the Ship of Theseus, or a parade (Hume) where everyone drops out but is replaced so that the parade is maintained, or the body with its cells constantly being replaced.  Things can change - flow - and yet have permanence; think of a river.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 11 maj 2013 x kl. 00.43 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> J-A,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Any time you are ready to make the point of your thought experiment clear I will consider it.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Marsha 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 5:50 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Well Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> You admit that the clay changes from soft and malleable to firm and stable AND still in a constant state of changeing.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Do you understand that there is a change? The physical pattern changes into another, OK?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> J-A
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 10 maj 2013 kl. 10.32 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> J-A,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> What potter?  -  It's your thought experiment and I don't understand it's point, so you'd be the person who must answer the questions. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 3:30 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you say that the clay changes from soft and malleable to firm and stable AND still in a constant state of changeing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why do you think the potter is burning the clay? Is it because it makes the clay firm and stable or doesn't it really matter because it is still in a state of change?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan-Anders
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 maj 2013 x kl. 09.12 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snip...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ___
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>> 
>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>> Archives:
>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>> Archives:
>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>> 
>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>> Archives:
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>> Archives:
>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html

More information about the Moq_Discuss mailing list