[MD] relatively static
Jan Anders Andersson
jananderses at telia.com
Tue May 14 02:40:01 PDT 2013
599834CB75 at telia.com> <BE1C6137-C90D-4A94-948D-ADA353A23C36 at att.net>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
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Dear Marsha
Sorry for that. You seem to confirm dmb thesis that you're rigidly anti-intellectual which makes it impossible to maintain a useful dialogue at this forum.
RMP: "Life can't exist on Dynamic Quality alone. It has no staying power. To cling to Dynamic Quality alone apart from any static patterns is to cling to chaos."
Please, do not forget to burn the clay before you sell it.
Jan-Anders
14 maj 2013 x kl. 11.10 skrev MarshaV:
>
> J-A,
>
> You would like to restrict me to the the either/or, yes/no dichotomy of the Flatlander's language? No thanks. Closed-ended questions make me sneeze. In Flatland the tendency is to label a pattern, then give that label a definition, then take the pattern to actually be the labeled definition. That's reification and a very superficial understanding.
>
>
> Marsha
>
> p.s. Get someone else to play the role of Alcibiades.
>
>
>
> On May 13, 2013, at 6:37 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>
>> BC458527EA at telia.com> <34ACAA2F-F372-4C02-906C-E083FABC5BCE at att.net>
>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085)
>>
>> Dear Marsha
>>
>> Of course there is a point. Are you able to agree in any point? Y/N
>>
>> J A
>>
>>
>> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 12.25 skrev MarshaV:
>>
>>>
>>> J-A,
>>>
>>> There never was a point, was there? And now another pointless question?
>>>
>>> Mu!
>>>
>>>
>>> Marsha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 13, 2013, at 6:10 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Marsha
>>>>
>>>> What do you like the writings of Robert M Pirsig?
>>>>
>>>> J A
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 11.05 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> J-A,
>>>>>
>>>>> What she?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 4:50 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> So did you like the pattern she created?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J A
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13 maj 2013 x kl. 10.28 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> J-A,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would you now like to lecture me on how you have achieved a similar performance of beauty, harmony, balance, and how I could too if only I listen to your wise words?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 3:43 AM, Jan Anders Andersson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.flixxy.com/the-incredible-power-of-concentration-miyoko-shida.htm#.UZCXf3DEjcU
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> J A
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greetings J-A,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 13, 2013, at 1:56 AM, Jan Anders Andersson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Marsha
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think you are interested to know its point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is it your habit (pattern) to think you KNOW other people's interests? That's a rather grandiose claim. - Make your point!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's my mundane point:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- Static patterns of value are repetitive processes (multiple events),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> conditionally co-dependent,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> impermanent,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and ever-changing,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that pragmatically tend to persist and change within a stable, predictable pattern.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Within the MoQ,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> these patterns are morally categorized into a four-level, evolutionary,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hierarchical
>>>>>>> structure:
>>>>>>> intellectual,
>>>>>>> social,
>>>>>>> biological,
>>>>>>> and inorganic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Static quality exists in stable patterns relative to other patterns.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Patterns have no independent, inherent existence. ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> p.s. Consider this explanation in the same category as "pure experience" where 'pure' doesn't mean 'pure' but merely 'relatively pure' and there are no accusations of some horrendous, unspeakable, anti-intellectual crime against definition.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 12 maj 2013 x kl. 23.46 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> J-A,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Answer the Y/N questions yourself; I am not interested in doing so. It's your thought experiment, so explain its point. What are you thinking?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On May 12, 2013, at 3:39 PM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It shouldn't hurt or be dangerous in any way to just answer my questions with YES or NO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is the clay burned to make it firm? Y/N
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does that make it better and more useful? Y/N
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> J-A
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan-Anders,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The original topic has not been replaced; it was change, not clay or teapots or 'saving time'. Before (when soft and malleable) and after a firing (when firm and stable), the clay is still in a constant state of changing. In other words, both before and after the firing, the clay or teapot is ever-changing. So once again I suggest that you might take a few minutes everyday to take an introspective look:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha:
>>>>>>>>>>> I have pointed out many times, it is not anti-intellectual or a contradiction to understand that patterns may maintain a static, stable identity at the same time as they and their context are undergoing constant change. Think of the Ship of Theseus, or a parade (Hume) where everyone drops out but is replaced so that the parade is maintained, or the body with its cells constantly being replaced. Things can change - flow - and yet have permanence; think of a river.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 11 maj 2013 x kl. 00.43 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> J-A,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Any time you are ready to make the point of your thought experiment clear I will consider it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 5:50 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You admit that the clay changes from soft and malleable to firm and stable AND still in a constant state of changeing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you understand that there is a change? The physical pattern changes into another, OK?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> J-A
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 maj 2013 kl. 10.32 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> J-A,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What potter? - It's your thought experiment and I don't understand it's point, so you'd be the person who must answer the questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 10, 2013, at 3:30 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, you say that the clay changes from soft and malleable to firm and stable AND still in a constant state of changeing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why do you think the potter is burning the clay? Is it because it makes the clay firm and stable or doesn't it really matter because it is still in a state of change?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan-Anders
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 maj 2013 x kl. 09.12 skrev MarshaV:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snip...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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