[MD] Zen at War

[David Thomas]

On 10/22/13 12:35 PM, "David Buchanan" <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:

> dmb says:
> No, actually, the so-called "pissing and moaning" centered around Marsha's
> claim that "the static world is like an illusion". And in an attempt to get
> Marsha to see the moral implications of this stance Andre asked, "Do you
> believe that the atomic bombs that dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were
> illusory?" He also asked if the Holocaust was "like an illusion".
> 
> It seems that your post does not address that question at all, Mr. Thomas.
> Instead you've just changed the subject to Japanese nationalism and turned the
> whole thing into a low-brow flag-waving contest. The question of whose crimes
> were worse isn't relevant to the question and it doesn't even matter if you
> think those events count as war crimes or not. The question is whether or not
> these horrible events were "like an illusion".

[Dave]
No, you, yet agin, are miss'n or avoid'n the point. It is one half of the
whole subject. Pirsig claims roots in Buddhism and James. Marrying these
long standing Eastern and Western traditions is his goal.  Y'all don't like
how Marsha portrays the Buddhist half. McWatt has formally pictured it
elsewhere. Do you like that any better? Do you really understand it? Or you
can choose from "About 45,100,000" Google pages to guide you.

Pirsig's axiom that, "Quality is a direct experience independent of and
prior to intellectual abstractions." is a "Westernized Koan", directly
poached from Buddhism. And as far as I know, Buddhism is the only known
"philosophy/religion" that proposes a path, a psychological reconditioning,
to actually accomplish this "independent direct experience of Quality." At
the end of this path it's claimed that you will directly experience Quality,
Reality as it Really is. (You don't do that currently) Now if this sounds
more like religion (or pending psychosis) than philosophy, then you have had
an enlightening moment. But if you want try and git there you have no other
choice but travel this path. I have neither the time, patience, inclination,
or faith to pursue it given the real results, in the real world, in that
people who have pursued this path (Japan is one of many examples) have
clearly increased, not only their own suffering, but that of the rest of
world. But if you must, go for it, I'll be try'n to shine a little
non-Dharma light along the way to guide you back to an imperfect, but
non-mystical reality.