[MD] Art and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

[Ian Glendinning]

Hi Dan,

We agree enough is enough.
If I may focus on your final para:

> The real question seems to be: is this discussion group a culture of its
> own? And if so, are we presuming these beliefs correspond to some sort of
> external (objective) reality? So far as I know, the MOQ subsumes objective
> and subjective reality into a framework of value. Are these values to be
> found in Lila and ZMM?

I think there is a lot on this.

The culture of this group "should" comprise the values we find in Lila
and ZMM sure.

Playful (whether worldly / knowing or naive / neurotic) social
interaction is simply part of being a group - the bit we agree needs
to be within limits of tolerance, caring for each other as
individuals, to use John's language.

But the core culture is of course schizophernic / split-personality
between ZMM and Lila. (And Paul gave us a "two views" perspective on
this.)

Those on the philosophical academe agenda, the Lila half, clearly seem
intent on subsuming whatever qualities MoQ has (had) into some
objective subject-object dialectic. (Mark / 118 said as much
recently).

For me these are welcome to their own agenda, I respect their rights
to do so - in an academic context. What I can't accept is this agenda
subsuming the whole art & rhetroic of zen and the art of MD, which
only flourishes without the overly objective shackles.

Half dead is not alive.
Ian