[MD] Anti-intellectualism revisited

[John Carl]

Hey Jan Anders,

On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 12:32 AM, Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com
> wrote:

> Hi Ron, and this is also for John
>
> In a MOQ view, the intellectual level carries concepts that are dependent
> of the social level



Jc:  You mean "independent" don't you?  It's an important distinction!  The
4th level IS above the 3rd, but is it independent?  Not completely.
Nothing is completely independent of anything, not even self and reality,
eh?

J-A:


> to be expressed but using the social level for its own purposes.



Jc:  This is why I think "own purposes" is weak.  Every level depends upon
all lower levels, for existential being.  Biology is made of inorganic
elements and social patterns composed of the needs of biological beings and
intellect as the critic of social pattenrs, also itself evolved out of
social patterns so the levels are at least as interdependent as they are
distinct.

J-A:



> Concepts are not dependant on individuals, names and words, formulas and
> just any intellectual pattern can be expressed by any individual.



Jc:  You say what they are "not" dependent upon.  But what they ARE
dependent upon is the biggest question of all.  I can only think, DQ!  But
it seems our artistic side is more tuned to DQ than any other.

J-A:


> Rights or wrongs, good and bad ideas, all can be carried by anyone. People
> die but good ideas get older than vampires.
>
>
Jc:  Plato as vampire?   ... interesting thought there.


J-A:


> Philosophy, Math, Economy, Rhetoric, MD are some of the tools we use to
> maintain this level.
>
> The meaning of any example of intellectual art is based upon a balance in
> three aspects; dignity, form and expression.
>
> Jan-Anders
>
>
Jc:  Hmm, I don't know about that, J-A.  First of all, dignity is in form
and expression or its nothing at all, eh?  And second, it's real important
to remember that intellect is not in service of intellect.  Intellectual
patterns are always about the improvement of social patterns.  Just as
social patterns are all about gathering biological.  So while the 4th is
above the 3rd, it craves the betterness of 3rd level pattens, more than its
own being.  Self-crucifying metaphysics = new life.  Intellectual art is
based upon persuasion towards betterness.

Idealism Uber alles!

John C


-- 
"finite players
play within boundaries.
Infinite players
play *with* boundaries."