[MD] Rhetoric

Tuukka Virtaperko mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net
Mon Jan 2 04:06:41 PST 2017 

Ron,

what is so good about society that you would defend it against me?

Tuk




On 02-Jan-17 13:32, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
> Ron,
>
> If someone can devote time and effort for researching the purported 
> topic of this mailing list, it is regarded by someone else as a bad 
> thing. That someone else is put off by himself having a job which 
> precludes him from participating except in a mediocre way. However, 
> Phaedrus's aim in ZAMM was not to define or discover or understand 
> mediocrity. It was to understand excellence.
>
> Tuk
>
>
>
>
> On 02-Jan-17 13:22, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
>> Please consider what it does to a person not to have a credible 
>> intellectual authority as a child. You are implying that I have 
>> caused this burden to fall upon me. But I have not caused the 
>> ineptitude of others.
>>
>> When you are sick to death of my narcissism, you are sick to death of 
>> how insignificant it makes you feel. You think you are entitled to 
>> feel better. I think I am also entitled to feel better. But we don't, 
>> do we?
>>
>> Is the psychiatrist who put me on pension making a useful 
>> contribution to society? If not, why should I?
>>
>> Tuk
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01-Jan-17 18:01, X Acto wrote:
>>> Tuk,
>>> I guess everyone is being nice to you or ignoring you because you're 
>>> a "man-child" with out a job or purpose who lives in his parents 
>>> basement mentally masturbating to what he thinks is his own genius. 
>>> When in fact he is basing his entire argument on a logical fallacy.
>>> You may be a genius when it comes to logical functions but when it 
>>> comes to critical thinking skills you can't reason yourself out of a 
>>> wet paper bag.
>>> Things aren't quiet because you are right and no one can stand up to 
>>> your towering intellect . It's that you're so wrong no one has the 
>>> time or energy to prove it to you and your immense ego.
>>>
>>> Since I have made a New Years resolution not to get involved in 
>>> discussions here that I can't devote my full attention to, this 
>>> tirade is basically cathartic. I'm sick to death of your narcissism.
>>>
>>> Grow up, get a job and make yourself useful to society And have a 
>>> great new year in the process.
>>>
>>> -Ron
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Jan 1, 2017, at 8:53 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko 
>>>> <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The brain is not a muscle, Dave. If you're wrong, that's it.
>>>>
>>>> Tuk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 01-Jan-17 2:33, david wrote:
>>>>> Howdy, Adrie, MOQers all:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know about Chris Langan's CTMU but Tuukka's criticism is 
>>>>> not correct.
>>>>>
>>>>> The MOQ does not include anything like Kant's noumenal reality or 
>>>>> "things-in-themselves" and the MOQ holds that phenomenal reality 
>>>>> is the only
>>>>> reality we can know. The phenomenal reality is NOT romantic 
>>>>> quality. When Pirsig refers to Dynamic Quality as "direct everyday 
>>>>> experience," "the primary empirical reality," or quotes William 
>>>>> James referring to "the immediate flux of reality," and "pure 
>>>>> experience" he is talking about phenomenal reality as such.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tuukka's claims to have improved the MOQ are quite preposterous. 
>>>>> Obviously, there's no way to "improve" the MOQ or create an 
>>>>> alternative without understanding it first.
>>>>>
>>>>> Buyer beware.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> on 
>>>>> behalf of Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 6:43 AM
>>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric
>>>>>
>>>>> I think its good to read these materials.But things on wiki's are not
>>>>> always what they seem.Some are very deceptive.
>>>>> In fact, what this author is presenting here is actually nothing 
>>>>> more than a
>>>>> collection of derivatives from Wittgensteins work on logic.It is 
>>>>> spiced and
>>>>> salted with some previously known paradoxes in a new disguise.
>>>>> The best way of putting it  ,in my opinion,is to regard it as a 
>>>>> new attempt
>>>>> to launch the Tractatus-logico etc,....explained with the 
>>>>> terminology of a
>>>>> computerprogrammer, or a very strong logical thinker.And a very 
>>>>> intelligent
>>>>> thinker,...clearly,this however does not prove him right in any 
>>>>> way or
>>>>> field.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think it will generate clarifications on reality itself,or 
>>>>> add new
>>>>> insights;
>>>>> it is kinda developed to work as an upide down gearbox,not 
>>>>> shifting up, but
>>>>> in fact , shifting down further, in a halted car.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wished you would not take this as critisism, because it 
>>>>> is'nt.You should
>>>>> explore these things, they are less boring than Wittgenstein,and 
>>>>> he was not
>>>>> all that clever also.
>>>>>
>>>>> the only part of critics i have is about your statement, 
>>>>> "competitor to the
>>>>> moq and amoq", There is no competion,connection,or game to win.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2016-12-31 8:52 GMT+01:00 Tuukka Virtaperko 
>>>>> <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Langan, developer of the CTMU, which is a competitor to the 
>>>>>> MOQ and
>>>>>> AMOQ, does not understand the MOQ.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Citing http://ctmucommunity.org/wiki/Cognitive-Theoretic_Model_of_t
>>>>>> he_Universe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ***
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On the other hand, mind acts as a filter: that which does not 
>>>>>> conform to
>>>>>> mental categories is irrelevant to perception, and therefore not 
>>>>>> real.
>>>>>> Langan here breaks with Kant, who posited a noumenal reality of
>>>>>> "things-in-themselves", independent of the phenomenal reality we 
>>>>>> perceive.
>>>>>> Discarding this "Kantian fallacy", Langan rejects noumena as 
>>>>>> oxymoronic
>>>>>> "inconceivable concepts"[21] and holds that phenomenal reality, 
>>>>>> as the only
>>>>>> reality we can know, is the only reality there is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ***
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This means Langan's understanding of philosophy is at the level 
>>>>>> of ZAMM.
>>>>>> It is not at the level of LILA. The phenomenal reality is 
>>>>>> romantic quality.
>>>>>> Langan is oblivious to Dynamic Quality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tuk
>>>>>>
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