[MD] Rhetoric

Adrie Kintziger parser666 at gmail.com
Tue Jan 3 03:50:59 PST 2017 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_exposure_theory

ideal garden for you tuukka

2017-01-03 12:06 GMT+01:00 Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>:

> @Tuukka.
>
> Your behaviour is not inappropriate.
> You tend to overshoot a it a bit ,it happens with everyone sometimes.....
>
> 2017-01-03 11:54 GMT+01:00 Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com>:
>
>> Tukka
>>
>> Celebrity, my friend, is nothing one can expect or demand,
>>
>> only by knowing the dynamic quality at the social level it may be
>> deserved.
>>
>> Jan-Anders
>>
>>
>>
>> > 3 jan 2017 x kl. 11:08 skrev mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net:
>> >
>> > Horse,
>> >
>> > GET BACK IN HERE AND TELL ME CAN I CALL RON A "DICKWAD" OR NOT
>> >
>> > It is funny because it's true. Wait, what is?
>> >
>> > It's true that by behaving this way I am actually acknowledging that
>> intellectual patterns depend on social patterns. They need social patterns
>> to survive. So I try to verify that my behavior is in accordance with
>> social norms.
>> >
>> > AND I'M STILL DOING IT WRONG
>> >
>> > But you don't have a category for the reason why it's wrong. I do, and
>> you refuse it because I have made it a humiliating thing to accept. But
>> your metaphysics doesn't explain this humiliating feeling. It says you
>> should thank me. Why don't you want to do so?
>> >
>> > Why don't you want to thank me for dominating sociality with intellect
>> while verifying that my behavior isn't socially inappropriate?
>> >
>> > Tuk
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Lainaus mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net:
>> >
>> >> Horse,
>> >> Can we change the mailing list rules? I need to call Ron a "dickwad" as
>> >> a part of a dialectical technique that seems rhetorical to him because
>> >> he doesn't understand it.
>> >>
>> >> Tuk
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Lainaus Tuukka Virtaperko <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>:
>> >>
>> >>> Ron,
>> >>>
>> >>> and why am I asking you this question that sounds so offensive?
>> >>>
>> >>> "What is so good about society that you would defend it against me?"
>> >>>
>> >>> I agree that sounds pretty selfish. But what's *wrong* about it
>> >>> according to the MOQ? The MOQ doesn't state it's wrong to be selfish.
>> >>> It states that intellect is superior to society.
>> >>>
>> >>> The point I am making here is a parody of what you believe in. It is
>> >>> also a literally accurate implementation of your beliefs, if you
>> >>> believe in Pirsig's MOQ, but it is so grotesque it is polite to call
>> it
>> >>> a parody.
>> >>>
>> >>> See, I was being polite to you. But I don't sound polite anymore
>> >>> because I made a fuss of it.
>> >>>
>> >>> My current behavior lacks aesthetic appeal. You are capable of
>> >>> intuitively perceiving this. But since you believe in Pirsig's MOQ you
>> >>> are compelled to search for an explanation for your intuition from the
>> >>> four boxes Pirsig gave to you. These are labeled "inorganic",
>> >>> "biological", "social" and "intellectual".
>> >>>
>> >>> You just sought for an explanation for your intuition from the box
>> >>> labeled "social". According to Pirsig's MOQ this was the wrong thing
>> to
>> >>> do. Intellect is superior to society so you can't find anything from
>> >>> that box that you could use to point out that there's something wrong
>> >>> about my behavior.
>> >>>
>> >>> From your viewpoint, your intuition of the repugnancy of my behavior
>> is
>> >>> Dynamic Quality! But if you keep experiencing it over and over again
>> it
>> >>> will cease to appear to be so Dynamic. So it should become static. But
>> >>> if you believe in Pirsig's MOQ, this means your intuition should
>> >>> eventually settle down in one of the four boxes provided by Robert
>> >>> Pirsig.
>> >>>
>> >>> And I'm going to keep doing this until you:
>> >>>
>> >>> - Assign my repugnant behavior to a category provided by Pirsig and
>> >>> explain the assignment
>> >>>
>> >>> or:
>> >>>
>> >>> - Assume that you need more categories (which I have provided)
>> >>>
>> >>> so, which one is it going to be?
>> >>>
>> >>> Tuk
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 02-Jan-17 14:06, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
>> >>>> Ron,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> what is so good about society that you would defend it against me?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tuk
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 02-Jan-17 13:32, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
>> >>>>> Ron,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> If someone can devote time and effort for researching the
>>  purported topic of this mailing list, it is regarded by someone   else as
>> a bad thing. That someone else is put off by himself   having a job which
>> precludes him from participating except in a   mediocre way. However,
>> Phaedrus's aim in ZAMM was not to define  or  discover or understand
>> mediocrity. It was to understand  excellence.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Tuk
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 02-Jan-17 13:22, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
>> >>>>>> Please consider what it does to a person not to have a credible
>>  intellectual authority as a child. You are implying that I have   caused
>> this burden to fall upon me. But I have not caused the   ineptitude of
>> others.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> When you are sick to death of my narcissism, you are sick to
>>  death of how insignificant it makes you feel. You think you are   entitled
>> to feel better. I think I am also entitled to feel   better. But we don't,
>> do we?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Is the psychiatrist who put me on pension making a useful
>>  contribution to society? If not, why should I?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Tuk
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 01-Jan-17 18:01, X Acto wrote:
>> >>>>>>> Tuk,
>> >>>>>>> I guess everyone is being nice to you or ignoring you because
>>  you're a "man-child" with out a job or purpose who lives in his   parents
>> basement mentally masturbating to what he thinks is  his  own genius. When
>> in fact he is basing his entire argument  on a  logical fallacy.
>> >>>>>>> You may be a genius when it comes to logical functions but when
>>  it comes to critical thinking skills you can't reason yourself   out of a
>> wet paper bag.
>> >>>>>>> Things aren't quiet because you are right and no one can stand
>>  up to your towering intellect . It's that you're so wrong no  one  has the
>> time or energy to prove it to you and your immense  ego.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Since I have made a New Years resolution not to get involved in
>>  discussions here that I can't devote my full attention to,  this  tirade
>> is basically cathartic. I'm sick to death of your   narcissism.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Grow up, get a job and make yourself useful to society And have
>>  a great new year in the process.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> -Ron
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 1, 2017, at 8:53 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko   <
>> mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> The brain is not a muscle, Dave. If you're wrong, that's it.
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Tuk
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On 01-Jan-17 2:33, david wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>> Howdy, Adrie, MOQers all:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I don't know about Chris Langan's CTMU but Tuukka's criticism
>>  is not correct.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> The MOQ does not include anything like Kant's noumenal
>> reality  or "things-in-themselves" and the MOQ holds that  phenomenal
>> reality is the only
>> >>>>>>>>> reality we can know. The phenomenal reality is NOT romantic
>>  quality. When Pirsig refers to Dynamic Quality as "direct   everyday
>> experience," "the primary empirical reality," or   quotes William James
>> referring to "the immediate flux of   reality," and "pure experience" he is
>> talking about  phenomenal  reality as such.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Tuukka's claims to have improved the MOQ are quite
>>  preposterous. Obviously, there's no way to "improve" the MOQ   or create
>> an alternative without understanding it first.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Buyer beware.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>> >>>>>>>>> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> on
>>  behalf of Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 6:43 AM
>> >>>>>>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I think its good to read these materials.But things on wiki's
>> are not
>> >>>>>>>>> always what they seem.Some are very deceptive.
>> >>>>>>>>> In fact, what this author is presenting here is actually
>>  nothing more than a
>> >>>>>>>>> collection of derivatives from Wittgensteins work on logic.It
>>  is spiced and
>> >>>>>>>>> salted with some previously known paradoxes in a new disguise.
>> >>>>>>>>> The best way of putting it  ,in my opinion,is to regard it as
>>  a new attempt
>> >>>>>>>>> to launch the Tractatus-logico etc,....explained with the
>>  terminology of a
>> >>>>>>>>> computerprogrammer, or a very strong logical thinker.And a
>>  very intelligent
>> >>>>>>>>> thinker,...clearly,this however does not prove him right in any
>> way or
>> >>>>>>>>> field.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I don't think it will generate clarifications on reality
>>  itself,or add new
>> >>>>>>>>> insights;
>> >>>>>>>>> it is kinda developed to work as an upide down gearbox,not
>>  shifting up, but
>> >>>>>>>>> in fact , shifting down further, in a halted car.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I wished you would not take this as critisism, because it
>>  is'nt.You should
>> >>>>>>>>> explore these things, they are less boring than
>>  Wittgenstein,and he was not
>> >>>>>>>>> all that clever also.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> the only part of critics i have is about your statement,
>>  "competitor to the
>> >>>>>>>>> moq and amoq", There is no competion,connection,or game to win.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> 2016-12-31 8:52 GMT+01:00 Tuukka Virtaperko   <
>> mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Chris Langan, developer of the CTMU, which is a competitor
>> to  the MOQ and
>> >>>>>>>>>> AMOQ, does not understand the MOQ.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Citing http://ctmucommunity.org/wiki/
>> Cognitive-Theoretic_Model_of_t
>> >>>>>>>>>> he_Universe
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> ***
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, mind acts as a filter: that which does
>> not  conform to
>> >>>>>>>>>> mental categories is irrelevant to perception, and therefore
>> not real.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Langan here breaks with Kant, who posited a noumenal reality of
>> >>>>>>>>>> "things-in-themselves", independent of the phenomenal
>> reality  we perceive.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Discarding this "Kantian fallacy", Langan rejects noumena as
>>  oxymoronic
>> >>>>>>>>>> "inconceivable concepts"[21] and holds that phenomenal
>>  reality, as the only
>> >>>>>>>>>> reality we can know, is the only reality there is.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> ***
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> This means Langan's understanding of philosophy is at the
>>  level of ZAMM.
>> >>>>>>>>>> It is not at the level of LILA. The phenomenal reality is
>>  romantic quality.
>> >>>>>>>>>> Langan is oblivious to Dynamic Quality.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Tuk
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> ---
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