[MD] Rhetoric
Horse
horse at darkstar.uk.net
Tue Jan 3 11:08:13 PST 2017
What are you on about? Are you a complete idiot or do you take the
occasional day off?
And if you want to carry on fucking with me then please go away and do
it where someone gives a shit!
On 03/01/2017 14:40, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
> Horse,
>
> okay, but I achieved the same effect by asking you permission to do
> so! You see, I'm just copulating with ya.
>
> Tuk
>
>
>
>
> On 03-Jan-17 16:19, Horse wrote:
>> No
>>
>> On 03/01/2017 10:08, mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net wrote:
>>> Horse,
>>>
>>> GET BACK IN HERE AND TELL ME CAN I CALL RON A "DICKWAD" OR NOT
>>>
>>> It is funny because it's true. Wait, what is?
>>>
>>> It's true that by behaving this way I am actually acknowledging that
>>> intellectual patterns depend on social patterns. They need social
>>> patterns to survive. So I try to verify that my behavior is in
>>> accordance with social norms.
>>>
>>> AND I'M STILL DOING IT WRONG
>>>
>>> But you don't have a category for the reason why it's wrong. I do,
>>> and you refuse it because I have made it a humiliating thing to
>>> accept. But your metaphysics doesn't explain this humiliating
>>> feeling. It says you should thank me. Why don't you want to do so?
>>>
>>> Why don't you want to thank me for dominating sociality with
>>> intellect while verifying that my behavior isn't socially
>>> inappropriate?
>>>
>>> Tuk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lainaus mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net:
>>>
>>>> Horse,
>>>> Can we change the mailing list rules? I need to call Ron a
>>>> "dickwad" as
>>>> a part of a dialectical technique that seems rhetorical to him because
>>>> he doesn't understand it.
>>>>
>>>> Tuk
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lainaus Tuukka Virtaperko <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>:
>>>>
>>>>> Ron,
>>>>>
>>>>> and why am I asking you this question that sounds so offensive?
>>>>>
>>>>> "What is so good about society that you would defend it against me?"
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree that sounds pretty selfish. But what's *wrong* about it
>>>>> according to the MOQ? The MOQ doesn't state it's wrong to be selfish.
>>>>> It states that intellect is superior to society.
>>>>>
>>>>> The point I am making here is a parody of what you believe in. It is
>>>>> also a literally accurate implementation of your beliefs, if you
>>>>> believe in Pirsig's MOQ, but it is so grotesque it is polite to
>>>>> call it
>>>>> a parody.
>>>>>
>>>>> See, I was being polite to you. But I don't sound polite anymore
>>>>> because I made a fuss of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> My current behavior lacks aesthetic appeal. You are capable of
>>>>> intuitively perceiving this. But since you believe in Pirsig's MOQ
>>>>> you
>>>>> are compelled to search for an explanation for your intuition from
>>>>> the
>>>>> four boxes Pirsig gave to you. These are labeled "inorganic",
>>>>> "biological", "social" and "intellectual".
>>>>>
>>>>> You just sought for an explanation for your intuition from the box
>>>>> labeled "social". According to Pirsig's MOQ this was the wrong
>>>>> thing to
>>>>> do. Intellect is superior to society so you can't find anything from
>>>>> that box that you could use to point out that there's something wrong
>>>>> about my behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>> From your viewpoint, your intuition of the repugnancy of my
>>>>> behavior is
>>>>> Dynamic Quality! But if you keep experiencing it over and over
>>>>> again it
>>>>> will cease to appear to be so Dynamic. So it should become static.
>>>>> But
>>>>> if you believe in Pirsig's MOQ, this means your intuition should
>>>>> eventually settle down in one of the four boxes provided by Robert
>>>>> Pirsig.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I'm going to keep doing this until you:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Assign my repugnant behavior to a category provided by Pirsig and
>>>>> explain the assignment
>>>>>
>>>>> or:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Assume that you need more categories (which I have provided)
>>>>>
>>>>> so, which one is it going to be?
>>>>>
>>>>> Tuk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02-Jan-17 14:06, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
>>>>>> Ron,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> what is so good about society that you would defend it against me?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tuk
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02-Jan-17 13:32, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
>>>>>>> Ron,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If someone can devote time and effort for researching the
>>>>>>> purported topic of this mailing list, it is regarded by
>>>>>>> someone else as a bad thing. That someone else is put off by
>>>>>>> himself having a job which precludes him from participating
>>>>>>> except in a mediocre way. However, Phaedrus's aim in ZAMM was
>>>>>>> not to define or discover or understand mediocrity. It was to
>>>>>>> understand excellence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tuk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02-Jan-17 13:22, Tuukka Virtaperko wrote:
>>>>>>>> Please consider what it does to a person not to have a
>>>>>>>> credible intellectual authority as a child. You are implying
>>>>>>>> that I have caused this burden to fall upon me. But I have not
>>>>>>>> caused the ineptitude of others.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When you are sick to death of my narcissism, you are sick to
>>>>>>>> death of how insignificant it makes you feel. You think you
>>>>>>>> are entitled to feel better. I think I am also entitled to
>>>>>>>> feel better. But we don't, do we?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is the psychiatrist who put me on pension making a useful
>>>>>>>> contribution to society? If not, why should I?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tuk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 01-Jan-17 18:01, X Acto wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Tuk,
>>>>>>>>> I guess everyone is being nice to you or ignoring you
>>>>>>>>> because you're a "man-child" with out a job or purpose who
>>>>>>>>> lives in his parents basement mentally masturbating to what
>>>>>>>>> he thinks is his own genius. When in fact he is basing his
>>>>>>>>> entire argument on a logical fallacy.
>>>>>>>>> You may be a genius when it comes to logical functions but
>>>>>>>>> when it comes to critical thinking skills you can't reason
>>>>>>>>> yourself out of a wet paper bag.
>>>>>>>>> Things aren't quiet because you are right and no one can
>>>>>>>>> stand up to your towering intellect . It's that you're so
>>>>>>>>> wrong no one has the time or energy to prove it to you and
>>>>>>>>> your immense ego.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since I have made a New Years resolution not to get involved
>>>>>>>>> in discussions here that I can't devote my full attention
>>>>>>>>> to, this tirade is basically cathartic. I'm sick to death of
>>>>>>>>> your narcissism.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Grow up, get a job and make yourself useful to society And
>>>>>>>>> have a great new year in the process.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Ron
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 1, 2017, at 8:53 AM, Tuukka Virtaperko
>>>>>>>>>> <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The brain is not a muscle, Dave. If you're wrong, that's it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tuk
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 01-Jan-17 2:33, david wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Howdy, Adrie, MOQers all:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know about Chris Langan's CTMU but Tuukka's
>>>>>>>>>>> criticism is not correct.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The MOQ does not include anything like Kant's noumenal
>>>>>>>>>>> reality or "things-in-themselves" and the MOQ holds that
>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenal reality is the only
>>>>>>>>>>> reality we can know. The phenomenal reality is NOT
>>>>>>>>>>> romantic quality. When Pirsig refers to Dynamic Quality as
>>>>>>>>>>> "direct everyday experience," "the primary empirical
>>>>>>>>>>> reality," or quotes William James referring to "the
>>>>>>>>>>> immediate flux of reality," and "pure experience" he is
>>>>>>>>>>> talking about phenomenal reality as such.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tuukka's claims to have improved the MOQ are quite
>>>>>>>>>>> preposterous. Obviously, there's no way to "improve" the
>>>>>>>>>>> MOQ or create an alternative without understanding it first.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Buyer beware.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> on
>>>>>>>>>>> behalf of Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2016 6:43 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Rhetoric
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think its good to read these materials.But things on
>>>>>>>>>>> wiki's are not
>>>>>>>>>>> always what they seem.Some are very deceptive.
>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, what this author is presenting here is actually
>>>>>>>>>>> nothing more than a
>>>>>>>>>>> collection of derivatives from Wittgensteins work on
>>>>>>>>>>> logic.It is spiced and
>>>>>>>>>>> salted with some previously known paradoxes in a new disguise.
>>>>>>>>>>> The best way of putting it ,in my opinion,is to regard it
>>>>>>>>>>> as a new attempt
>>>>>>>>>>> to launch the Tractatus-logico etc,....explained with the
>>>>>>>>>>> terminology of a
>>>>>>>>>>> computerprogrammer, or a very strong logical thinker.And a
>>>>>>>>>>> very intelligent
>>>>>>>>>>> thinker,...clearly,this however does not prove him right in
>>>>>>>>>>> any way or
>>>>>>>>>>> field.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it will generate clarifications on reality
>>>>>>>>>>> itself,or add new
>>>>>>>>>>> insights;
>>>>>>>>>>> it is kinda developed to work as an upide down gearbox,not
>>>>>>>>>>> shifting up, but
>>>>>>>>>>> in fact , shifting down further, in a halted car.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wished you would not take this as critisism, because it
>>>>>>>>>>> is'nt.You should
>>>>>>>>>>> explore these things, they are less boring than
>>>>>>>>>>> Wittgenstein,and he was not
>>>>>>>>>>> all that clever also.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the only part of critics i have is about your statement,
>>>>>>>>>>> "competitor to the
>>>>>>>>>>> moq and amoq", There is no competion,connection,or game to win.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 2016-12-31 8:52 GMT+01:00 Tuukka Virtaperko
>>>>>>>>>>> <mail at tuukkavirtaperko.net>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Langan, developer of the CTMU, which is a competitor
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the MOQ and
>>>>>>>>>>>> AMOQ, does not understand the MOQ.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Citing
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://ctmucommunity.org/wiki/Cognitive-Theoretic_Model_of_t
>>>>>>>>>>>> he_Universe
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ***
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, mind acts as a filter: that which does
>>>>>>>>>>>> not conform to
>>>>>>>>>>>> mental categories is irrelevant to perception, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> therefore not real.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Langan here breaks with Kant, who posited a noumenal
>>>>>>>>>>>> reality of
>>>>>>>>>>>> "things-in-themselves", independent of the phenomenal
>>>>>>>>>>>> reality we perceive.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Discarding this "Kantian fallacy", Langan rejects noumena
>>>>>>>>>>>> as oxymoronic
>>>>>>>>>>>> "inconceivable concepts"[21] and holds that phenomenal
>>>>>>>>>>>> reality, as the only
>>>>>>>>>>>> reality we can know, is the only reality there is.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ***
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This means Langan's understanding of philosophy is at the
>>>>>>>>>>>> level of ZAMM.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It is not at the level of LILA. The phenomenal reality is
>>>>>>>>>>>> romantic quality.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Langan is oblivious to Dynamic Quality.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tuk
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>>>>>>>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>>>>>>> [https://static2.avast.com/11/web/min/i/mkt/share/avast-logo.png]<https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>>>>>>>>> Avast | Download Free Antivirus for PC, Mac &
>>>>>>>>>>> Android<https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>>>>>>>>> www.avast.com
>>>>>>>>>>> Protect your devices with the best free antivirus on the
>>>>>>>>>>> market. Download Avast antivirus and anti-spyware
>>>>>>>>>>> protection for your PC, Mac and Android.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>>>> MOQ Online - MOQ_Discuss<http://moq.org/md/archives.html>
>>>>>>>>>>> moq.org
>>>>>>>>>>> The MOQ_Discuss mailing list has been moved to a new
>>>>>>>>>>> hosting company and a new mailing list server. The old
>>>>>>>>>>> system was becoming more unreliable by the day and the ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> parser
>>>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>>>> MOQ Online - MOQ_Discuss<http://moq.org/md/archives.html>
>>>>>>>>>>> moq.org
>>>>>>>>>>> The MOQ_Discuss mailing list has been moved to a new
>>>>>>>>>>> hosting company and a new mailing list server. The old
>>>>>>>>>>> system was becoming more unreliable by the day and the ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>>>>>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>>>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>>>>>>> software.
>>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>
>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>>> Archives:
>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>>> Archives:
>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>>> Archives:
>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>
>>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>
--
"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."
— Bob Moorehead
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
More information about the Moq_Discuss
mailing list