[MD] Moq_Discuss Digest, Vol 147, Issue 6
Jan Anders Andersson
jananderses at telia.com
Wed Apr 29 14:20:39 PDT 2020
btw
Here’s more about my work: https://www.facebook.com/MoneyandtheArtofLosingControl/
Jan-Anders
> 29 apr. 2020 x kl. 22:57 skrev Jan Anders Andersson <jananderses at telia.com>:
>
> Hi all
>
> Funny enough I also have some experiences from Florida as I spent some time by a friend in St. Petersburg and Clearwater until I ended up in New Orleans by some strange Cajun women….
> If you ever, by accident or what, find your self fooling around in Europe, in some Post-Corona period, you should remember that you’re always welcome to visit me and my wife.
> We’re living in an old railway station just halfway between Oslo and Stockholm.
>
> bw
>
> Jan-Anders
>
>> 29 apr. 2020 x kl. 22:21 skrev tim harris <timharrisarts at icloud.com>:
>>
>> This is an interesting discussion about Florida as I just finished reading all of the John D. MacDonald novels I have on hand.
>>
>> My name is Tim and I haven’t posted here before. I was reading Lila when I joined this group and soon after my joining Pirsig died. Pirsig has been the major author influence in my life and I was reading Lila’s Child a few months ago, which led me to reread ZMM again, and had started rereading Lila again when the Pandemic started. In a search to find some lighter reading material I picked up John D. MacDonald.
>>
>> As a commentary on Florida his books are likely second to none. MacDonald was writing about conservation before Rachel Carson’s ‘Silent Spring’. Along with this commentary you also get a very well written story with interesting plots and in depth character development. You also get a good dose of philosophy.
>>
>> I had read some of MacDonald’s work when I was young and I loved the books then, but only now has come to appreciate how good of a writer he was.
>>
>> So take care and thanks for having a MOQ forum.
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2020, at 2:43 PM, moq_discuss-request at lists.moqtalk.org wrote:
>>>
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>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> 1. Re: Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends (Scribe)
>>> 2. Re: Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends (Adrie Kintziger)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:54:49 -0400
>>> From: "Scribe" <Scribe at Club-Hub.com>
>>> To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends
>>> Message-ID: <000001d61e4f$47c12be0$d74383a0$@Club-Hub.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> Dan and Adrie,
>>> As a nearly lifelong Floridian, (It does hurt admitting that) I can testify
>>> that Florida has long been home to invasive species. Dan mentions a few, but
>>> by far the most pernicious is humans. Today there are 10 times as many of
>>> them in the state as when I entered elementary school. There is a serious
>>> infestation southwest of Dan called the Villages where Conservative
>>> northerners retire with their Stepford wives to ride golf carts and complain
>>> about being taxed for schools. Sadly, unlike bears the Game and Fresh Water
>>> Fish Commission cannot open a season on them. Dan is right there a still
>>> many wild places here. I hope you are not too far from civilization as
>>> native Floridians are a wild and crazy bunch, many are still fighting the
>>> Civil War. As you move away from cities the number of Confederate flags
>>> rises exponentially as do cars on blocks, roofless trailers, bad teeth, body
>>> odor, and inbreeding.
>>> And the heat. Did you mention the heat? High 80s is a cold snap. We sweat
>>> from late March through February.
>>> As a lad I grew up across from an orange grove, down a dead-end road from a
>>> truck stop. At night we would fall asleep on sweaty sheets to the groan of
>>> big rigs grinding through the gears headed north on two lanes of black
>>> topped US 98. My mother still lives in the same house but now there are
>>> hotels on either side of her house, a McDonalds and Hooter's in her back
>>> yard. There is a mall on one end of her dead-end road and an interstate at
>>> the other.
>>> There was little of no air conditioning back in the day and mosquitos
>>> usually found a way in through the open screened windows. We took some
>>> grandkids to D.C. a couple of years ago and in the hall of statutes in the
>>> Capitol each state gets to put two statues, usually of someone famous or
>>> notable from the state. One of ours was John Gorrie, which drew a big "Huh?"
>>> from everyone. Until it is pointed out that this is the dude who invented
>>> Air Conditioning. Without him Florida would return to the gators, skeeters,
>>> and Seminoles in less than a decade.
>>> As you can might guess, I am not on the Florida Tourism Commission. That
>>> said, welcome to Florida Dan. Glad you found a quiet spot.
>>> We visited near Adrie's neck of the wood last year, Brussels, Amsterdam,
>>> Copenhagen and Hamberg.... We stayed at a hotel near the Amsterdam airport,
>>> which turned out to be farther away than I might have liked, but Amsterdam
>>> is crazy. It had never previously occurred to me that you could be killed by
>>> a bicycle. We went to the flower auction and Keukenhof. Beautiful places,
>>> and what a concept, a theme park without animation. We did stray a bit into
>>> the wild with a tour of a cheese/clog factory in the middle of nowhere. We
>>> also visited Oxford a couple of years ago to see the site of Ant's
>>> graduation debacle. Oh and last summer we drove through Bozeman and saw the
>>> buildings where Pirsig taught. They also have a small computer museum in
>>> Bozeman with and Apple I, signed by Steve Wozniak and one of only two
>>> signature in the world of Ada Lovelace!
>>> You might noted that my previous distain for tourism has morphed into full
>>> blown adoption of the lifestyle. Call it hypocrisy but in today's climate, I
>>> write it off to contagion.
>>> Starting in April we were supposed to be headed back to Europe for a couple
>>> of months but got stranded with the Covid. Damn, there was a tour of Greece
>>> in there. I was hoping for a touch of Arete, or maybe stock tips from the
>>> oracle at Delphi...
>>> It really is a joy hearing from all of you. With any luck more will chime in
>>> and who know what might happen.
>>> Krimel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> On Behalf Of Dan
>>> Glover
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 6:59 PM
>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends
>>>
>>> Hello Adrie,
>>>
>>> Though there's been millions of people moving into Florida, there are still
>>> many wild places here where plants and animals thrive. Last summer they had
>>> to shut down the Ocala National Forest just south of where I live on account
>>> of the black bear population growing so much and possibly posing a danger to
>>> human visitors.
>>>
>>> That's interesting about starlings. I was not aware they are originally from
>>> Europe. Here in Florida there are many invasive species that seem to find a
>>> niche in the ecosystem and become naturalized. Water hyacinths with their
>>> thick woody stems are thought to have come from ballast tanks on steamers
>>> back in the day. Armadillos were originally brought to Jacksonville in a
>>> laboratory setting to study leprosy and escaped into the wild. Now they are
>>> everywhere. Same with domesticated pigs that are now wild boars that grow to
>>> enormous size. I can hear them alongside the shore when I take the boat out
>>> into the swamps.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:15 AM Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dan, most animals are returning here altough they were nearly pushed
>>>> to extinction by the use of some agricultural supplements--,there are
>>>> many apple orchards here , and the farmers used Chloormequat for too
>>>> long.When i was young the swallows broke the electricitylines by their
>>>> sheer weight.Same story for the starlings,they disappeared for nearly
>>>> 40 years; only for now to come back.Yesterday we had a deer here at my
>>>> house,not seen in the wild in what, -50 years.!
>>>> Strangely, but the falcons here never left,partly because they adapted
>>>> to the urbanisation,and fed on domestic pigeons.
>>>> We also have harriers.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_marsh_harrier
>>>>
>>>> Did you know the starlings in America are immigrants from
>>>> Europe?...they were brought to New York at first.
>>>> They even have migratory behavier there..
>>>>
>>>> Adrie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Op zo 26 apr. 2020 om 21:51 schreef Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Adrie!
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, long time. Cormorants we have in abundance too. You can always
>>>>> spot them perched ominously on a branch with wings displayed
>>>>> menacingly. When
>>>> I
>>>>> first saw them standing like that, I thought they must be angry with
>>>>> me over some perceived slight. Of course, all they are really doing
>>>>> is
>>>> drying
>>>>> their feathers since they lack the oil producing glands of other
>>>> waterfowl
>>>>> like ducks and such.
>>>>>
>>>>> One blue heron frequents the canal here during the winter. You see
>>>> him/her
>>>>> coming down out of the sky like a falling mountain. It then stands
>>>>> for hours on end staring intently at the water. The intensity of its
>>>>> glare is rather startling, eyes never blinking. Then, all of a
>>>>> sudden, you hear a splash and it comes rising up with a fish
>>>>> wriggling in its beak. I am
>>>> sure
>>>>> if I had koi, they would be long gone by now.
>>>>>
>>>>> The otters here live mainly out on the rivers and swamps where vast
>>>>> mats
>>>> of
>>>>> water hyacinths grow along the banks. Manatees also enjoy munching
>>>>> on the hyacinths as well. Last spring, a mamma manatee and her calf
>>>>> visited my canal for a couple days. You see them mostly out on the
>>> rivers, though.
>>>>> Same with the blue herons. Lots of them out in the swamps, along
>>>>> with egrets and ospreys and eagles. I've noticed peregrine falcons as
>>> well.
>>>> You
>>>>> can always tell them by their high-pitched screech.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 4:34 AM Adrie Kintziger
>>>>> <parser666 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello , Dan, long time no see..
>>>>>> The blue herons along with the white are a real pest here.Two
>>>>>> years
>>>> ago a
>>>>>> blu heron was able to
>>>>>> steal most of my koi-he only left one in the pond.That one is
>>>>>> still
>>>> there
>>>>>> now, with some goldfish.I had
>>>>>> to cover the whole pond with nets on a permanent base.Another pest
>>>>>> here
>>>>> is
>>>>>> the great cormorant which
>>>>>> is a special guest at the canal here.They own it!.
>>>>>> Few days ago the first otter was spotted in Zelzate in 50 years or
>>>>> so,..in
>>>>>> the yacht harbour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adrie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Op za 25 apr. 2020 om 21:42 schreef Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello old friends,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A couple years ago I sold everything, gave away what I couldn't
>>>>>>> sell,
>>>>> and
>>>>>>> moved from Chicago to Florida. I bought a shack perched
>>>>>>> precariously
>>>>>> close
>>>>>>> to a canal in the swamps just outside Satsuma where I spend my
>>>>>>> days
>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>>> in the sunshine reading and taking photos of gators, otters, and
>>>>>>> blue herons. I was delighted the other day to see a reference to
>>>>>>> Zen and
>>>> the
>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>> of Motorcycle Maintenance in Quichotte (pronounced Key-Shot) by
>>>> Salman
>>>>>>> Rushdie but then again Rushdie seems to read everything.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am no longer writing as much as I did up north. I think part
>>>>>>> of
>>>> that
>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> to do with how it is sunny and warm and pleasant here even in
>>>> December
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> January and February whereas in Chicago the weather was intent
>>>>>>> on
>>>>> killing
>>>>>>> me six months out of the year. I also like to think what I do
>>>>>>> write
>>>> now
>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> more quality than the torrent of words I once produced though in
>>>> that I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>>> most likely fooling myself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am also exercising quite a lot these days: walking, biking,
>>>> running,
>>>>>>> swimming. I daily take a chug from the fountain of youth and
>>>>>>> dammit
>>>> if
>>>>> it
>>>>>>> doesn't seem to be working. Listening to lots of music both new
>>>>>>> and
>>>>> old,
>>>>>>> catch myself cranking up the volume. Miles Davis seems
>>>>>>> particularly
>>>>>> apropos
>>>>>>> to these long and sunny Florida afternoons.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Life is good.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A rip tide is raging
>>>>>>> And the life guard is away
>>>>>>> But the ocean doesn't want me today The ocean doesn't want me
>>>>>>> today (Tom Waits)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 2:11 PM Adrie Kintziger
>>>>>>> <parser666 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Matt , and Krimel,and probably more of the usual suspects..
>>>>>>>> ,in
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> run-up to my retirement and my daughter buying a house that i
>>>>>>>> had
>>>> to
>>>>> do
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> myself (3 yrs work),
>>>>>>>> i halted my postings to the list.After some time it went
>>>>>> silent.Probably
>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>> was peeled out of the onion. Since then, i never checked
>>>>>>>> anymore,
>>>> nor
>>>>>>> did i
>>>>>>>> hear anything.
>>>>>>>> So you are the first ,Matt.
>>>>>>>> I still read many books.I fish extensively.Still riding my
>>>>>>>> bicycle
>>>>>> daily,
>>>>>>>> do about 12000 miles a year.I have the bulk of time now.
>>>>>>>> But its difficult to ride my normal tracks under lockdown and
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Dutch borders closed up-normally i always ride in the
>>>>>>>> Netherlands,
>>>>> but
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> to stay in Belgium nowadays.
>>>>>>>> We cannot fish in the canal under the lockdown,and they are
>>>>> patrolling
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> little forest we have there , so the only thing we can do for
>>>>>>>> now
>>>> is
>>>>>>>> cleaning , pruning the trees and just sit over there , on some
>>>>>>>> distance from each other. Its our
>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>> tranquility base , so we have to guard it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I do not know where you live Matt, and Krimel,i hope its a
>>>>>>>> location
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> allows you to weather this viral storms ...
>>>>>>>> Missed you all, Krimel included.
>>>>>>>> Adrie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Op za 25 apr. 2020 om 19:36 schreef Scribe <Scribe at club-hub.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Matt,
>>>>>>>>> Good to hear from you. I too have reflected on the old day
>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> MoQ.
>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> memory they take shape as Good old days in a way few
>>>>>>>>> reflection
>>>> on
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>> do these days.
>>>>>>>>> I left the MoQ after Horse and Ant threaten to reveal my
>>>>>>>>> true
>>>> name,
>>>>>>>> which I
>>>>>>>>> thought was a betrayal of trust. I went to graduate school
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> communication
>>>>>>>>> but dropped out after a six years as an ABD with a master's,
>>>> mostly
>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>> I got a full time teaching gig. I mostly taught Psychology
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>> also
>>>>>>>> classes
>>>>>>>>> in Communication and Philosophy. I retired last year and
>>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>> couple
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> months in Europe riding trains with my wife. We had similar
>>>>>>>>> plans
>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> year
>>>>>>>>> but they have been delayed...
>>>>>>>>> There is a serious irony for me with respect to the MoQ.
>>>>>>>>> When I
>>>>>> entered
>>>>>>>>> graduate school, I was averaging four or five page of
>>>>>>>>> writing a
>>>> day
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> community. Graduate school gave me writer's block. It was
>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>> focused,
>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>> controlled, it had to be done. Don't get me wrong I wrote a
>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> graduate
>>>>>>>>> school but it was not for fun and other than being an
>>>>>>>>> asshole on
>>>>>>>> Facebook I
>>>>>>>>> don't do it much these days.
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, love me or hate me I miss all of you, well most of
>>>>>>>>> you,
>>>>>>> fiercely.
>>>>>>>>> Krimel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of
>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>> Kundert
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:41 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's been three years since I've checked this email and five
>>>> since
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>>>> to the listserve. I was just talking to a friend, outside,
>>>>>>>>> 8
>>>> feet
>>>>>>> away,
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> a fold-out chair I brought with me, and she brought up ZMM.
>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>> chatted a
>>>>>>>>> little while about it, and am going to give her one of the
>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>> copies
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> still have squirreled away. I haven't read it since I
>>>>>>>>> taught it
>>>> in
>>>>>>> 2014,
>>>>>>>>> but I still think it is one of the most remarkably
>>>>>>>>> structured
>>>>> books.
>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>> been teaching "close reading" for over 10 years now, and its
>>>>>>>> responsiveness
>>>>>>>>> is a sign of its enduring quality of thought and feeling.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But that's just, maybe, the required nostalgic overture.
>>>>>>>>> The
>>>> real
>>>>>>>>> nostalgia
>>>>>>>>> I wanted to toss into this still pool was a Hello to any of
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>> old
>>>>>>>> friends
>>>>>>>>> and interlocutors who still receive these emails. I still
>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>> that
>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> participation many years ago was integral to my intellectual
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> stylistic
>>>>>>>>> growth.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hope everyone is well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>> Former Apostate
>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.or
>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.or
>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> http://www.danglover.com
>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 20:43:16 +0200
>>> From: Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>
>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <CAFS_YJ4ZkxtLU0_g4Rzf3RR160=jvdp2nL-1Uoa-ryWt3xz9OQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>>
>>> This posting made my rainy day , Krimel,-an infestation-what a mighty
>>> stroke of your keyboardbrush!
>>> I am aware of the temperature in Florida , because i visited Cuba long time
>>> ago,and it was smokingly hot and humid,they use factor 100 there,
>>> and we still got sunburn even in the shade, luckily there was always
>>> wind.They have mildew there , and probably also in Florida, due to the heat
>>> and humidity-
>>> indeed, sweating even in one's sleep.
>>> My wife is a native from Turkey, and sometimes we visit places like
>>> say,Sanliurfa and Mardin;even hotter than Congo, superdry, absence of wind,
>>> and high above sea, the temperature is dramatic there.
>>> Great to hear that you visited the Keukenhof , Krimel , i was there two
>>> years ago.(we have two gardens in Belgium , that are lesser known, but even
>>> more beautiful), and yes, people get killed by bicycles
>>> on a daily basis here.They are everywhere.I have all kinds, elektrical,
>>> race,mtb , you name it.Broke my wrist in a very nasty way, 2 places last
>>> year.
>>> sorry , short of time, have to go for today.
>>> Adrie
>>>
>>> Op wo 29 apr. 2020 om 19:56 schreef Scribe <Scribe at club-hub.com>:
>>>
>>>> Dan and Adrie,
>>>> As a nearly lifelong Floridian, (It does hurt admitting that) I can testify
>>>> that Florida has long been home to invasive species. Dan mentions a few,
>>>> but
>>>> by far the most pernicious is humans. Today there are 10 times as many of
>>>> them in the state as when I entered elementary school. There is a serious
>>>> infestation southwest of Dan called the Villages where Conservative
>>>> northerners retire with their Stepford wives to ride golf carts and
>>>> complain
>>>> about being taxed for schools. Sadly, unlike bears the Game and Fresh Water
>>>> Fish Commission cannot open a season on them. Dan is right there a still
>>>> many wild places here. I hope you are not too far from civilization as
>>>> native Floridians are a wild and crazy bunch, many are still fighting the
>>>> Civil War. As you move away from cities the number of Confederate flags
>>>> rises exponentially as do cars on blocks, roofless trailers, bad teeth,
>>>> body
>>>> odor, and inbreeding.
>>>> And the heat. Did you mention the heat? High 80s is a cold snap. We sweat
>>>> from late March through February.
>>>> As a lad I grew up across from an orange grove, down a dead-end road from a
>>>> truck stop. At night we would fall asleep on sweaty sheets to the groan of
>>>> big rigs grinding through the gears headed north on two lanes of black
>>>> topped US 98. My mother still lives in the same house but now there are
>>>> hotels on either side of her house, a McDonalds and Hooter's in her back
>>>> yard. There is a mall on one end of her dead-end road and an interstate at
>>>> the other.
>>>> There was little of no air conditioning back in the day and mosquitos
>>>> usually found a way in through the open screened windows. We took some
>>>> grandkids to D.C. a couple of years ago and in the hall of statutes in the
>>>> Capitol each state gets to put two statues, usually of someone famous or
>>>> notable from the state. One of ours was John Gorrie, which drew a big
>>>> "Huh?"
>>>> from everyone. Until it is pointed out that this is the dude who invented
>>>> Air Conditioning. Without him Florida would return to the gators, skeeters,
>>>> and Seminoles in less than a decade.
>>>> As you can might guess, I am not on the Florida Tourism Commission. That
>>>> said, welcome to Florida Dan. Glad you found a quiet spot.
>>>> We visited near Adrie's neck of the wood last year, Brussels, Amsterdam,
>>>> Copenhagen and Hamberg.... We stayed at a hotel near the Amsterdam airport,
>>>> which turned out to be farther away than I might have liked, but Amsterdam
>>>> is crazy. It had never previously occurred to me that you could be killed
>>>> by
>>>> a bicycle. We went to the flower auction and Keukenhof. Beautiful places,
>>>> and what a concept, a theme park without animation. We did stray a bit into
>>>> the wild with a tour of a cheese/clog factory in the middle of nowhere. We
>>>> also visited Oxford a couple of years ago to see the site of Ant's
>>>> graduation debacle. Oh and last summer we drove through Bozeman and saw the
>>>> buildings where Pirsig taught. They also have a small computer museum in
>>>> Bozeman with and Apple I, signed by Steve Wozniak and one of only two
>>>> signature in the world of Ada Lovelace!
>>>> You might noted that my previous distain for tourism has morphed into full
>>>> blown adoption of the lifestyle. Call it hypocrisy but in today's climate,
>>>> I
>>>> write it off to contagion.
>>>> Starting in April we were supposed to be headed back to Europe for a couple
>>>> of months but got stranded with the Covid. Damn, there was a tour of Greece
>>>> in there. I was hoping for a touch of Arete, or maybe stock tips from the
>>>> oracle at Delphi...
>>>> It really is a joy hearing from all of you. With any luck more will chime
>>>> in
>>>> and who know what might happen.
>>>> Krimel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> On Behalf Of Dan
>>>> Glover
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 6:59 PM
>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends
>>>>
>>>> Hello Adrie,
>>>>
>>>> Though there's been millions of people moving into Florida, there are still
>>>> many wild places here where plants and animals thrive. Last summer they had
>>>> to shut down the Ocala National Forest just south of where I live on
>>>> account
>>>> of the black bear population growing so much and possibly posing a danger
>>>> to
>>>> human visitors.
>>>>
>>>> That's interesting about starlings. I was not aware they are originally
>>>> from
>>>> Europe. Here in Florida there are many invasive species that seem to find a
>>>> niche in the ecosystem and become naturalized. Water hyacinths with their
>>>> thick woody stems are thought to have come from ballast tanks on steamers
>>>> back in the day. Armadillos were originally brought to Jacksonville in a
>>>> laboratory setting to study leprosy and escaped into the wild. Now they are
>>>> everywhere. Same with domesticated pigs that are now wild boars that grow
>>>> to
>>>> enormous size. I can hear them alongside the shore when I take the boat out
>>>> into the swamps.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:15 AM Adrie Kintziger <parser666 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dan, most animals are returning here altough they were nearly pushed
>>>>> to extinction by the use of some agricultural supplements--,there are
>>>>> many apple orchards here , and the farmers used Chloormequat for too
>>>>> long.When i was young the swallows broke the electricitylines by their
>>>>> sheer weight.Same story for the starlings,they disappeared for nearly
>>>>> 40 years; only for now to come back.Yesterday we had a deer here at my
>>>>> house,not seen in the wild in what, -50 years.!
>>>>> Strangely, but the falcons here never left,partly because they adapted
>>>>> to the urbanisation,and fed on domestic pigeons.
>>>>> We also have harriers.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_marsh_harrier
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you know the starlings in America are immigrants from
>>>>> Europe?...they were brought to New York at first.
>>>>> They even have migratory behavier there..
>>>>>
>>>>> Adrie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Op zo 26 apr. 2020 om 21:51 schreef Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Adrie!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, long time. Cormorants we have in abundance too. You can always
>>>>>> spot them perched ominously on a branch with wings displayed
>>>>>> menacingly. When
>>>>> I
>>>>>> first saw them standing like that, I thought they must be angry with
>>>>>> me over some perceived slight. Of course, all they are really doing
>>>>>> is
>>>>> drying
>>>>>> their feathers since they lack the oil producing glands of other
>>>>> waterfowl
>>>>>> like ducks and such.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One blue heron frequents the canal here during the winter. You see
>>>>> him/her
>>>>>> coming down out of the sky like a falling mountain. It then stands
>>>>>> for hours on end staring intently at the water. The intensity of its
>>>>>> glare is rather startling, eyes never blinking. Then, all of a
>>>>>> sudden, you hear a splash and it comes rising up with a fish
>>>>>> wriggling in its beak. I am
>>>>> sure
>>>>>> if I had koi, they would be long gone by now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The otters here live mainly out on the rivers and swamps where vast
>>>>>> mats
>>>>> of
>>>>>> water hyacinths grow along the banks. Manatees also enjoy munching
>>>>>> on the hyacinths as well. Last spring, a mamma manatee and her calf
>>>>>> visited my canal for a couple days. You see them mostly out on the
>>>> rivers, though.
>>>>>> Same with the blue herons. Lots of them out in the swamps, along
>>>>>> with egrets and ospreys and eagles. I've noticed peregrine falcons as
>>>> well.
>>>>> You
>>>>>> can always tell them by their high-pitched screech.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 4:34 AM Adrie Kintziger
>>>>>> <parser666 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello , Dan, long time no see..
>>>>>>> The blue herons along with the white are a real pest here.Two
>>>>>>> years
>>>>> ago a
>>>>>>> blu heron was able to
>>>>>>> steal most of my koi-he only left one in the pond.That one is
>>>>>>> still
>>>>> there
>>>>>>> now, with some goldfish.I had
>>>>>>> to cover the whole pond with nets on a permanent base.Another pest
>>>>>>> here
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the great cormorant which
>>>>>>> is a special guest at the canal here.They own it!.
>>>>>>> Few days ago the first otter was spotted in Zelzate in 50 years or
>>>>>> so,..in
>>>>>>> the yacht harbour.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adrie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Op za 25 apr. 2020 om 21:42 schreef Dan Glover <daneglover at gmail.com
>>>>> :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello old friends,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A couple years ago I sold everything, gave away what I couldn't
>>>>>>>> sell,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> moved from Chicago to Florida. I bought a shack perched
>>>>>>>> precariously
>>>>>>> close
>>>>>>>> to a canal in the swamps just outside Satsuma where I spend my
>>>>>>>> days
>>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>>>> in the sunshine reading and taking photos of gators, otters, and
>>>>>>>> blue herons. I was delighted the other day to see a reference to
>>>>>>>> Zen and
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Art
>>>>>>>> of Motorcycle Maintenance in Quichotte (pronounced Key-Shot) by
>>>>> Salman
>>>>>>>> Rushdie but then again Rushdie seems to read everything.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am no longer writing as much as I did up north. I think part
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>> that
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> to do with how it is sunny and warm and pleasant here even in
>>>>> December
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> January and February whereas in Chicago the weather was intent
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>> killing
>>>>>>>> me six months out of the year. I also like to think what I do
>>>>>>>> write
>>>>> now
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> more quality than the torrent of words I once produced though in
>>>>> that I
>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>> most likely fooling myself.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am also exercising quite a lot these days: walking, biking,
>>>>> running,
>>>>>>>> swimming. I daily take a chug from the fountain of youth and
>>>>>>>> dammit
>>>>> if
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> doesn't seem to be working. Listening to lots of music both new
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>> old,
>>>>>>>> catch myself cranking up the volume. Miles Davis seems
>>>>>>>> particularly
>>>>>>> apropos
>>>>>>>> to these long and sunny Florida afternoons.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Life is good.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A rip tide is raging
>>>>>>>> And the life guard is away
>>>>>>>> But the ocean doesn't want me today The ocean doesn't want me
>>>>>>>> today (Tom Waits)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 2:11 PM Adrie Kintziger
>>>>>>>> <parser666 at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Matt , and Krimel,and probably more of the usual suspects..
>>>>>>>>> ,in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> run-up to my retirement and my daughter buying a house that i
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>> to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>> myself (3 yrs work),
>>>>>>>>> i halted my postings to the list.After some time it went
>>>>>>> silent.Probably
>>>>>>>> i
>>>>>>>>> was peeled out of the onion. Since then, i never checked
>>>>>>>>> anymore,
>>>>> nor
>>>>>>>> did i
>>>>>>>>> hear anything.
>>>>>>>>> So you are the first ,Matt.
>>>>>>>>> I still read many books.I fish extensively.Still riding my
>>>>>>>>> bicycle
>>>>>>> daily,
>>>>>>>>> do about 12000 miles a year.I have the bulk of time now.
>>>>>>>>> But its difficult to ride my normal tracks under lockdown and
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Dutch borders closed up-normally i always ride in the
>>>>>>>>> Netherlands,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to stay in Belgium nowadays.
>>>>>>>>> We cannot fish in the canal under the lockdown,and they are
>>>>>> patrolling
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> little forest we have there , so the only thing we can do for
>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> cleaning , pruning the trees and just sit over there , on some
>>>>>>>>> distance from each other. Its our
>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>>> tranquility base , so we have to guard it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I do not know where you live Matt, and Krimel,i hope its a
>>>>>>>>> location
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> allows you to weather this viral storms ...
>>>>>>>>> Missed you all, Krimel included.
>>>>>>>>> Adrie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Op za 25 apr. 2020 om 19:36 schreef Scribe <Scribe at club-hub.com
>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Matt,
>>>>>>>>>> Good to hear from you. I too have reflected on the old day
>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>> MoQ.
>>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> memory they take shape as Good old days in a way few
>>>>>>>>>> reflection
>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> past
>>>>>>>>>> do these days.
>>>>>>>>>> I left the MoQ after Horse and Ant threaten to reveal my
>>>>>>>>>> true
>>>>> name,
>>>>>>>>> which I
>>>>>>>>>> thought was a betrayal of trust. I went to graduate school
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> communication
>>>>>>>>>> but dropped out after a six years as an ABD with a master's,
>>>>> mostly
>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>> I got a full time teaching gig. I mostly taught Psychology
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>> classes
>>>>>>>>>> in Communication and Philosophy. I retired last year and
>>>>>>>>>> spent
>>>>>> couple
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> months in Europe riding trains with my wife. We had similar
>>>>>>>>>> plans
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> year
>>>>>>>>>> but they have been delayed...
>>>>>>>>>> There is a serious irony for me with respect to the MoQ.
>>>>>>>>>> When I
>>>>>>> entered
>>>>>>>>>> graduate school, I was averaging four or five page of
>>>>>>>>>> writing a
>>>>> day
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> community. Graduate school gave me writer's block. It was
>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>> focused,
>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>> controlled, it had to be done. Don't get me wrong I wrote a
>>>>>>>>>> lot
>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> graduate
>>>>>>>>>> school but it was not for fun and other than being an
>>>>>>>>>> asshole on
>>>>>>>>> Facebook I
>>>>>>>>>> don't do it much these days.
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, love me or hate me I miss all of you, well most of
>>>>>>>>>> you,
>>>>>>>> fiercely.
>>>>>>>>>> Krimel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: Moq_Discuss <moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org> On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of
>>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>>> Kundert
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2020 11:41 AM
>>>>>>>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [MD] Best Wishes to All of My Old Friends
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's been three years since I've checked this email and five
>>>>> since
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> to the listserve. I was just talking to a friend, outside,
>>>>>>>>>> 8
>>>>> feet
>>>>>>>> away,
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> a fold-out chair I brought with me, and she brought up ZMM.
>>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>> chatted a
>>>>>>>>>> little while about it, and am going to give her one of the
>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>> copies
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> still have squirreled away. I haven't read it since I
>>>>>>>>>> taught it
>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> 2014,
>>>>>>>>>> but I still think it is one of the most remarkably
>>>>>>>>>> structured
>>>>>> books.
>>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>>>> been teaching "close reading" for over 10 years now, and its
>>>>>>>>> responsiveness
>>>>>>>>>> is a sign of its enduring quality of thought and feeling.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But that's just, maybe, the required nostalgic overture.
>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>> nostalgia
>>>>>>>>>> I wanted to toss into this still pool was a Hello to any of
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>> old
>>>>>>>>> friends
>>>>>>>>>> and interlocutors who still receive these emails. I still
>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> participation many years ago was integral to my intellectual
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> stylistic
>>>>>>>>>> growth.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I hope everyone is well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>>> Former Apostate
>>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.or
>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.or
>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> parser
>>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>>>> Archives:
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>>>>>>>>> http://moq.org/md/archives.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> http://www.danglover.com
>>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> parser
>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> http://www.danglover.com
>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> parser
>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>>>>> Archives:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> http://www.danglover.com
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> parser
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>
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>>> ------------------------------
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>>> End of Moq_Discuss Digest, Vol 147, Issue 6
>>> *******************************************
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